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HomeMy WebLinkAboutJULY 19,1983_2 CI'lY CDUNCIL PR!X:EEDINGS ARE TAPE RECORDED AND ON FILE IN THE OFF ~CE OF THE CI'lY CLERK 25:0764 MINUTES CITY CDUNCIL OF THE CI'lY OF ARCADIA and the ARCADIA REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY RffiULAR MEETING JULY 19, 1983 I The City Council of the City of Arcadia and the Arcadia Redevelopment Agency met in a regular session July 19, 1983 at 7:30 p.m. in the City Hall Council Chambers. INVOCATION Rev. Paul Chaney, Emmanuel Assembly of God Church PLm OF ALLEGIANCE ROIL CALL Floretta K. Lauber, furmer Mayor of the City of Arcadia PRESENT : ABSENT : Councilmen Dring, Haltom, Hannah, Pellegrino, Lojeski None MINUI'ES APPROVED On MJTION by Cuuncilman Pellegrino, seconded by Councilman Hal tern and carried the minutes of the adjourned and regular meetings uf July 5, 1983 were APPROVED. Councilmen Dring and Hannah abstained as they were absent from said meetings. WAIVE FULL READING OF ORD. & RES. It was !.DVED by Councilman Dring, seconded by Councilman Hal tan and carried that all ordinances and resolutions be read by title only and the reading in full be WAIVED. 1. HEARING Appeal of William Skibsted from some of the conditiuns of approval of CUP Planning COJJIlission Res. No. 1241 granting a Conditional Use Permit 42 W. Live Oak [83-12] for the expansion of an existing automotive garage at 42 W. D" )',1 \- Live Oak Avenue. The applicant is proposing a revised plan to provide r ~ for one additional parking space and 110 sq. ft. of landscaping [total of 210 sq. ft.] along the easterly property line. This would eliminate 949.5 sq. ft uf landscaping along the westerly property line [WeIland Avenue] and partially obstruct the visibility frum a driveway by relo- cating the trash enclosure. Mayor Lojeski declared the hearing upen and Connie Swank, 5538 N. WeIland Avenue in Temple City, asked the conditiunal use permit be granted as it was originally approved by the Planning Coornission. I The applicant, Bill Skibsted, Bill's Auto Body and Frame Repair Shop, 42 W. Live Oak Avenue, submitted, in part that he is endeavoring to clean up the subject area and make it useable for his work. He cir- culated photographs uf what the place looked like when he purchased it and what it is now although it isn't finished yet. He asked per- mission to ellininate the low level landscaping on the inside of the wall alung WeIland Avenue and to place the trash receptable to a more convenient area. He v,uuld maintain the landscaping at the corner of WeIland and Live Oak along with additiunal plantings which are not indicated on the plan \\hich the Council has in review. It was brought out that there will be a 6 foot high wall comprised of 2 foot block and 4 foot wrought iron and the reason for desiring to locate the trash container centrally is that it allows for better work area and it would be accessible for the rubbish company for pickup. During the ensuing consideration Mr. Skibsted circulated his revised plans and responded to questions propounded by Council. No one else desiring to be heard the hearing was CLOSED on 1fJTION by -1- 7-19-83 1;0 ',/ \,) r ~\- r..;~ './ 0{,; 2. IlE'ARING Traffic Barriers San Carlos & Orange Grove IN OProSITION J TO REMOVING BARRICADES IN FAVOR I OF REIDVING ~ BARRICADES 25:0765 Councilman Dring, seconded by Councilman Pellegrino and carried that the hearing be CLOSED. It was !.OVID by Councilman Haltan, seconded by COllllCilman Pellegrino and carried on roll call vote as follows that the appeal be granted with mod- ifications; delete the landscaping next to the wall along WeIland Avenue; require a 5' sidewalk with the balance of the parkway along WeIland to be landscaped; and penni t the trash receptable to be located as set forth in the applican' ts revised plan. [Resolution to be prepared]. AYES NOES AI3SENI' : Councilmen Dring, Hal tan , Hannab, Pellegrino, Lojeski None " None At its meeting of June 21 the City Council scheduled a public hearing on the possible removal of the traffic barriers at San Carlos and Orange Grove Avenue. Notices of this hearing were directed to the property own- ers in the area bounded by Baldwin Avenue and Santa Anita Avenue on the west and east and by Orange Grove and Foothill Boulevard on the north and south. Council received a drawing of the San Carlos Road and Orange Grove intersection indicating the existing barriers, signing and pavement mark- ings along with achronological sumnary of events relating to this area.. Council also received copies of correspondence recently received regard- ing the poSSible removal of the barriers and a copy of the Santa Anita Oaks Haneowners' Association survey dated February 10, 1983. I In response to a question by Councilman Pellegrino the Director of Public Works said in part that a speed survey had been conducted by the Police Department which indicated a drop of the speed to scmewhere between 27 and 31 rrph ... that another survey will be taken in the fall at which t:ime recarrnendations will be made. Surveys are required every five years and results are filed with the Courts on Roadways where radar is used for controlling speed and issuing citations. The Director also explained how speed l:imits are detennined for the various streets. ~1ayor Lojeski declared the hearing open ... First, to hear from those in opposition to removing the barricades at San Carlos and Orange Grove. INOORroRATED HEREIN IS A CXlMPLEI'E TRANOCRIPI' OF ALL cx:t.lMENJ.'S MADE BY THE FOILOWING RESIDENTS; Gene Lubeshloff John McConaghy Bernice Waldo Clyde Stauff Gary Darn 501 W. Foothill Bl. 515 Arbolada Dr. 1427 San Carlos Road 1401 Rancho Road 1410 Rancho Road [President, Santa Anita Oaks Homeowners' Assn. voiced op- position on behalf of the Assn., however, as an indivi- dual. he was in favor of remoVl' the traffic diverters.] 340 Arbolada'Dr.[SE corner of San Carlos and Orange Grove] 1434 San Carlos Road 285 W. Foothill Boulevard 1326 San Carlos Road 1231 San Carlos Road 1409 San Carlos Road Fran Zonver J:im Clark Tan O'Toole Lloyd P. Savage Perry Cope Joseph Brown John Rakich 185 S. Mountain Trail Avenue Sierra Madre 11 Hacienda Drive 1451 Oaklawn Road [submitted a petition with 46 signatures supporting the re- moval] 420 Arbolada Drive 1112 San Carlos Rd. 1225 Oaklawn Road 215 S. Mountain Trail, Sierra Madre 7-19-83 Fred Jahnke George Fasching Keith Snith James Flinn Mrs. Floretta K. Lauber Jerry Wilwerding -2- I I ROLL CALL I 3b. MlNUl'E APPROVAL .j 25;0766 No one else desiring to be heard the hearing was CLOSED on IDI'ICN by \ <::9unci},!Illlll Hannah, seconded by Councilman Dring and carried. Councilman Haltan said in part that he has always been opposed to the barricades ... it not only isolates people in the Oaks but prevents others fran using it ... he felt it constitutionally wrong. Streets of Arcadia are not only paid for by the residents of the City but by all California people ... through tax dollars. He recognized that OJimcil has an obligation to provide safety for those in the area ... stop signs were a step in the right direction but the barricades are not. i , Councilman Pellegrino was! in favor of reducing the speed l:imit on San Carlos and felt the barricades should rsnain until that can be accanplish- ed ... there is no way to canpare the cost of maintaining the barricades if a life is lost which has not occurred and hopefully it shall remain that way. Councilman Hannah said in part that he is sympathetic to the cause of safety and would not want to see any accident acCill' on San Carlos as a result of anything Council did tonight '" however he did not see the situation on San Carlos as very different from other streets in the City . .. there is an overall problEm of people exceeding the speed l:imi t. He said it was his understanding that the barricades were originally erected on a temporary basis ... He would like to see thEm rEmOved on the same basis, tEmporary, for a period of time and at that time he would like to see the Police Department spend extra time in the area to observe viola- tions o~ the laws. Mayor Lojeski said in part that he lives in the subject area and recalled wheii he polled the haneowners on his street ,.. The stop signs were erect- ed after a poll was taken by the Haneowners' Association .. that by the Police Department records and the statements made by the Director of PUblic Works that the speed of traffic has been d:iminished ... that it is a.1lrost a "no win" situation ... but in the best interests of the situation and of what has been attempted in the area and in the best interests of what is there now, the rEmoval of the barricades and the guarantee that there would be an irregular non-patterned patrol of the area by the Police Department and retaining the stop signs, would prove to be beneficial in the long run. Councilman Pellegrino then MOVED that the lowest enforceable speed l:imit be posted; that the barricades be rerroved on a tanporary six [6] months with an irregular non-pattern patrol of the area to insure the keeping of the stop signs. A speed survey will also be conducted during that period. Motion seconded by Councilman Hannah and carried on the following roll call vote: AYES NOES ABSENT : Councilmen Dring, Hal tan , Hannah, Pellegrino, Lojeski None None Council recessed in order to act as the ARCADIA REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY PR.E:8liNr : AreEN!' : Members Dring, Haltan, Hannah, Pellegrino, Lojeski None On IDI'ICN by Member Pellegrino, seconded by Member Hal tan and carried the minutes of the meeting of July 5 were APPROVED. Members Dring and Hannah ahstained as they were absent on said date. Prior to considering the following itEm Member Pellegrino absented h~ self from the Council Table ... he could not participate in the proceed- ings due to a possible conflict of interest. -3- 7-19--83 3c. R P I 250 W. Colorado Design Approved / -;r, G ,1'2--' ,,/ ( 1;; ~ ADJOURNMENT ,/ o \\;;~ (, ~ . 25:0767 OJNI'INUID fran July 5 ... Design Review of a proposed developnent at 250 W. Colorado Boulevard [intersection of Colorado Boulevard and Colo- rado PlaceJ ... it would consist of a 2 story, 2 structure, general of- fice building with surface and subterranean parking with a total of 64 stalls. It was originally planned to use wood exterior but due to the cost of this has been replaced with prefabricated material resEmblinp; ce- ment [DryvitJ. Cotmcil reviewed a color rendering of the developnent inclUding building elevations and plans. The revised plans had been revi'ewed by the Planning Department which found thE!ll acceptable. Dennis Neal, General Partner, RPI Developnent, responded to questions concerning the project and indicated changes and said the drawings will soon go into plan check after which construction would begin. I It was WVED by l,lEmber Dring, seconded by Chainnan I..ojeski and carried on roll call vote as follows that the design be APPROVED pursuant to the revisions submitted. AYES NOES ABSTAIN: Members Dring, Haltan, Hannah, Lojeski None MEmber Pellegrino who did not participate due to a possible conflict of interest. AffiENT : None The meeting adjourned to Thursday August 4, 1983 at 7 p.m. Council reconvened AlIDIENCE PARTICIPATION Richard Hernandez, 818 W. Cameron Avenue, West Covina, representing S.C.A. Webster Disposal Canpany, referred to the staff report and rec- commendation relating to proposals received for a refuse removal con- tract for the City. He said in part that sane i tans had been inadver- tently overlooked in their proposal and asked Council not to Imke a determination as yet and allow his company to clarify some of the points listed in the staff report dated July 14. He noted that his cunpany had submitted the lowest bid and that their contract with the City of Santa Ana had just been renewed which he felt justified the type of service they render as Santa Ana is a large populated City. John Gerradi, Vice President of Western Waste Industries, Inc., c<.mnend- ed the City staff in its report and recommendation concerning the rubbish contract; that the bidders were all given an ample opportunity to discuss and clarify items in their bids and urged the City Council to follow, staff's recommendation. John Tarazi, 1827 S. Third Avenue, Arcadia, referred to an itE!ll on the agenda concerning his request for a waiver of certain requirE!llents ~ posed on his proposed operation in the Chicago Park area to be known as I the Jonell ChE!llical Products. He introduced his architect, James Door. 65 W. Le Roy Avenue, Arcadia, who said in part that the'staff's classi- fication of the operation as a Group H hazardous operation is erroneous . . " 95% of the product used has a flashpoint greater than 3000 ... the remaining fluids have a flashpoint of 1100 to 2000 Fahrenheit which quantities are less than that exempted. He felt the projected cost of $52,600 to extend the water line would be an unreasonable burden to the land owner ... if water were available at a reasonable cost Mr. Tarazi would sprinkle his building and share in the cost of providing water. He, asked Council to grant the request so the developnent may proceed which will benefit the City and make useable land which has been lying donnant for about 20 years. [NOm: THIS WAS AN AGENDA ITEM THIS DATE AND THE REQUFSI' WAS DENIED ON A 4-1 VOl'E .. SEE PAGE NO. 5J. -4- 7-19-83 I / "LI,~'J.. 11':. I d 5a.r' CONTRACT AWARD [Slurry Seal] " r:: (II, / I;.- 5b. DllDLITION SENIOR CITIZEN SITE 5c.f'/3&4 CDBG REIMBURSABLE CONTRACT 5d.P!"~'"'V J T P A CONSJRTIUM JOINT roWERS AGREEMENl' I 6a. JONELL CHEMICAL ~UEST FOR WAIVERS DENIED "" /tt; .r .1, . r " -1 cJ j .,/ 25,0768 ~ohn Furay, 901 S. Primrose, Monrovia, representing Best Disposal Can- pany, referred to the staff report on refuse pickup and the reccmnenda- tion ... he felt Council should carefully study the two recomnended pro- posals, and after that analysis if one or ooth do not satisfy the require- ments of the City's residents that would be sufficient basis to reject ooth and extend the contract with Best Disposal [which tenninates in March of 1984]. He noted the perfonnance record of his company over the last 10 years and its desire to continue the kind of service the residents have becane accustaned to and to which they are entitled. Benny Joseph, 401 N. First Avenue, Arcadia, spoke on behalf of Best Disposal Cumpany and noted sane of the extra service it has performed without more cost to the residents. Mrs. Rita Lubeshkoff, 501 W. Foothill Boulevard, also spoke in favor of Best Disposal Company and carrnented on the service she bas received. James S. Menzies, 420 Santa Cruz Road, spoke on behalf of Best Disposal Company and asked Council to review the proposals very carefully; that the service and equipnent of Best is exceptional. CONSENT ITEMS AWARDED a contract to the low bidder, Pavement Coatings Canpany, in the amount of $69,592.80 for the annual street maintenance - slurry seal - Job No. 547; all informalities or irregularities in the bids or bidding process were waived and the r,layor and City Clerk were AUI'FDRlZED to exe- cute a contract in fonn approved by the City Attorney. APPROPRIATED $76,000 from State Gas Tax Funds to cover the cost of construction in- cluding design, inspection and contingencies. AWARDED contract in the amount of $9,152 to the low bidder, Goldbar Land Clearing, for the demolition and clearance of the site for the Senior Citizen Housing Project at 645, 653, 659 and 663 Nacmi Avenue. Funds are available through Carrnunity Developnent Block Grant Program. APPROVED and AUI'FDRlZED the Mayor to execute the 1983-84 Jobs Bill - Carrnunity Developnent Block Grant Program Reimbursable Contract - under the Housing and Community Developnent Act of 1984 as amended. APPROVED the Joint Powers Agreement with the cities of Duarte, Monrovia, Pasadena, Sierra Madre and South Pasadena to provide the delivery of job training services to eligible residents. 'The Mayor and City Clerk were AUTHORIZED to execute the agreement in fonn approved by the City Attorney. THE AOOVE CONSENT ITEMS WERE APPROVED ON MarION BY COUNCILMAN DRING, SEXXlNDED BY COUNClillAN HALIDI AND CARRIED ON ROIL CAlL VOTE AS FOlLOWS; AYES IDES ABSENT ; Councilmen Dring, Haltan, Hannah, Pellegrino, Lojeski None None CONTINUED FOOM JULY 5. Request of Jonell Chemical Products for waiver of City requirements in connection with a proposed developnent in the Chicago Park area [Cogs- well Street]. 'The company manufactures and blends lubricating oils and cutting oils for machine shops. The developer, John Tarazi, advised in his cannunication dated July 13 that it is a clean operation and does not have any by-products or funes. It is intended to construct a_~_ft wal~ around the plant for protection and also to form a curtain. They would be willing to pay its share of the water line based on the total frontage of the property. -5- 7-19--83 6b. REFUSE OOLLECTION [Sept. 13 Study SesESion] b~ 1) f~ I 7a. RESJLUTIQN NO. 5111 ALOPTED J () .' ~\ ~ ~ r \. \ - - 25;0769 The Fire Department advised that chEm;i.cal or electronic systffilS ~uld not meet the State requirEment. The question of water lines also arose and staff advised that the existing 8 inch line would have to be enxtended '" this would cost about $46,000 and the developer ~uld also have to install water meters for both domestic consumption and for his fire sprinkler sys- tEm .., total cost 'M)uld be the $46,000 plus $6.600 for water service. Staff had recannended that the developer pay the full cost of water line improvffilents. [NarE: The architect for this developnent spoke during audience participation]. With the cannent that he would not be in favor of waiving any of the re- quirEments and that Mr. Tarazi knew of the water situation when he pur- chased the property Councilman Dring h1JVED to DENY the request. Motion seconded by Councilman Haltom who felt it would be impractical to estab- I lish an assessnent district for one tenant. However, Councilman Pelle- grino would like to see something developed in the Chicago Park area and to study the possibility of solving the water problEm. Roll call vote was then taken on the motion. AYES NOES ABSENr : Councilmen Dring, Haltom, Hannah, Lojeski Councilman Pellegrino None Council received the staff analysis and recannendation concerning pro- posals received for the exclusive right to collect, remove and dispose of residential rpfuse. It was noted therein that requests for bids were mailed to 28 refuse collectors and 10 proposals were received which staff accepted and analyzed. American Waste Removal Angelus-Hudson, Inc. Athens Disposal Co. Best Disposal Co. Browning-Ferris Industries Westem Wast" [EDOO Disposal Corp dba [Rancho Disposal Service, Inc. ~etropolitan Waste Disposal SCA/Webster Refuse Disposal Waste ManagEment of California Industries Evaluations were prepared on each of the above. Five were eliminated and the top five were reviewed in relationShip to criteria listed in the staff report dated July 14. The top five were Athens Disposal, Best Disposal, SCA/Webster, Waste r,lanagEment and Western Waste Indus- tries. It was recommended by staff that Council hold a study session for the purpose of interviewing Athens Disposal and Western Waste In- dustries and making a determination. Councilman Dring MOVED to accept staff's recommendation. Motion did not receive a second. It was then ~K)VED by Councilman Pellegrino, seconded by Councilman Haltom and carried that additional information be obtained on the top five bidders and that the data include canplete rates for five years. Councilman Hannah felt the subnitted information is inccmplete. He ~uld also like to know the percentage of the dunping fees the hcmeowner pays. I Council SCHEDULED a STUDY SESSION for September 13, 1983 at 5:30 p.m. The City Attorney presented, explained the content and read the title of Resolution No. 5111, entitled: "A RESJLUTION OF THE CI'IY OOUNCIL OF THE CI'IY OF ARCADIA oproSING A PRlOON IN THE CI'IY OF IRWINDALE." It was MOVED by Councilman Hal tom, seconded by Councilman Dring and carried on roll call vote as follows that Resolution No. 5111 be and it is hereby ADOPTED. AYES NOES ABSENr : Counci lmen Dring, Hal tan, Hannah, Pellegrino, Loj eski None None -6- 7-19-83 Th. RES::>LlJrION ID. 5112 AJX)PI'ED j I 7('. Rl'IDLlJrION NO. 5113 AJX)PI'ED / 7d. RES::>LillION NO. 5114 AJX)PI'ED I . 7e.t" " CLAIM Suarez APPROVED I ADJOURl'lMENT August 4 j 25:0770 The City Attorney presented, explained the content and read the title of Resolution No. 5112, entitled: "A RES::>LillION OF THE CITY CDUNCIL OF THE CITY OF AOCADIA REGARDING RELEASE OF CDVENANT [VARIANCE 77-5]." It was M:JVED by Councilman Dring, seconded by COlIDCilman Hal tan and carried on roll call vote as follows that Resolution No. 5113 be and it is herpby ADOPI'ED. AYES IDES ABSENT : Councilmen Dring, Hal tan , Hannah, Pellegrino, wjeski Nonp Non... The City Attornpy presented, explained the content and read the title of Resolution Nu. 5113, entitled: "A RES::>LUI'ION OF THE CITY CDUNCIL OF THE CITY OF AOCADIA IN SUProRT OF LEGAL SERVICES FOR VlcrIMS OF VIOLENT CRIMES." It was M:JVED by Councilman Dring, seconded by Councilman Haltun and carried on roll call vote as follows that Resolution No. 5113 be and it is hereby AJX)PI'ED. AYES IDES Councilmen Dring, Hal tun, Hannah, Pellegrino, wjeski None Anr"T:'Jl.'lTT'\. "T.... The City Attorney presented, explained the content and read the title of Resolution No. 5114, entitled: "A RES::>LUI'ION OF THE CITY CDUNCIL OF THE CITY OF AOCADIA APPROVING THE APPLICATION FOR BICYCLE AND PEDESrRIAN FACILITIES AurHORlZED UNDER SB 821 AND DESIGNATING A BICYCLE AND PEDES- TRIAN FACILITIES PI1OJB:::I'." It was M:JVED by Councilman Dring, seconded by Councilman Pellegrino and carried on roll call vote as follows that Resolution No. 5114 be and it is hereby ADOPTED. AYES NOES ABSENT . Councilmen Dring, Hal tan, Hannah, Pellegrino, Lojeski None None On MJrION by Councilman Dring, seconded by Councilman Haltun and carried on roll call vote as follows the claim of C. Suarez was APPROVED in an amount to be determined upon further investigation but in no case not to exceed $1,719.48 as submitted in the claim. AYES NOES ABSENT : Counci1n1en Dring, Hal tan, Hannah, Pellegrino, Lojeski None None The meeting adjourned at 10:45 p.m. to T1IUruIDAY AUGUSI' 4, 1983 at 7 p.m. in the Conference Roan tu cunduct the business of the Council and Agency and any Closed Session necessary to discuss personnel, liti- gation matters and evaluation of properties. dfxtk~~ City Clerk . 7-19-83 T RAN S C RIP T [Insofar as decipherable] I PUBLIC HEARING PROCEEDINGS BARRICADES AT SAN CARLOS and ORANGE GROVE REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING J UL Y 1 9, 1 983 I LOJESKI HOWARD Traffic Barriers San Carlos and Orange Grove July 19, 1983 Item No.2 on the agenda. Public Hearing, Chester Howard. Your honor, members of the council. You have the staff report and support mater- ial pertaining to this matter. At the conclusion of the public hearing if the council determines that San Carlos traffic barriers should be removed, staff I should be directed to remove the barrier and the pertinent signing and pavemen markings. If the council determines that the barriers should remain then we need direction as to the nature of any future improvements that would be desired. This concludes my report, unless you have questions. LOJESKI Does anyone have any questions of Mr. Howard? PELLE HOWARD One question. Mr. Howard. Since our last meeting have we determined that we can lower the speed limit signs on that street? Speed survey has been made by the Police Department that would indicate that the speed has dropped to somewhere between 27 and 31 mph. Later in the fall we will be redoing the speed zoning study for the entire city and we would make a recom- mendation at that time as to what changes should be made but it would appear now that we can drop the limit but just to what we can't determine until we complete the study. LOJESKI Do we do such studies Chester at just certain times of the year? HOWARD We are required to do it every 5 years and file it with the courts on roadways where we use radar for controlling speed and issuing citations. LOJESKI Can we upgrade those within that 5 year period? HOWARD We could but it doesn't change the prevailing speed there on San Carlos. We could, if the council so desired, we could remove the 35 moh sign but the speel is determined by the Police Department in their radar study, That is going to remain more or less the same. . They will still be travelling the street at . HOWARD LOJESKI I HOWARD bOJESKI DRING HOWARD LOJESKI HOWARD LOJESKI HOWARD I LOJESKI PELLE Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. July 19, 1983 between 27 and 31 mph. I appreciate that. Let's assume 3 years ago the radar clocked the cars'going 35 mph on the average, the street was sign~d as 35 mph speed limit, 3 years later certain items had been instituted whereby the police-go back in and radar indicates that the speed limit is now 25 mph. Can we resign that at 25 mph or do we have to wait for the 5 years to be up? No, we can pick out that one street and handle it separately. Councilman Dring do you have a question? I would recommend that before that is brought back to the 'council again, that another police survey be done on that street.. Correct. Will be done. Any further questions of staff? Chester I 'have one question. Did we ever get the final cost estimates on improvements if the barricade were to stay, what the cost would be to improve? We made some preliminary estimates on that and the 'cost is going to vary depend- ing on what the council wants to do but it is anywhere from say $5,000 to $9,000 depending on whether 'we put in landscaping or whether, we put in a sprinkler system or whether we employ say colored concrete in the island area. There is, all a manner of variations there and consequently the cost would vary. Ongoing cost. Do we have any idea what that would be? If we are putting in concrete then there would be very little ongoing cost other than taking care of vandalism problems which we seem to have there. If we put in landscaping then you have the never ending cost of maintaining the land- scaping and paying the cost of the water. Councilman Pellegrino. Mr. city attorney. Wnat problems would we have if we posted a 25 mph speed limit? Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. , July 19, 1983 MILLER I think the question would relate to whether it is really legally authorized and that pertains to the survey' information that the Public Works Director has to provide so the problem would be that they wouldn't be recognized necessarily in a lega~ sense when citations were issued. PELLE Thank you. LOJESKI Any further questions of Mr. Howard? This is a Public Hearing. We will take first of all those people who are in opposition to this item on the agenda would be in opposition to the removal of the traffic barriers at San Carlos and Orange Grove. In other words these are for people who are for keeping the bar- ricade there. _.---._--- -- ----~-------_. OPPOSED " My name is Gene Lubeshkoff and I live at 501 W. Foothill Blvd. As most of the < people in the neighborhood know I walk my 'dog virtually every morning and every night in this area. We have lived there since Baldwin Avenue had been and before the barricade came into being and at that time when Baldwin was virtuall closed down to or 2 lanes, Arbolada arid San Carlos was used as the main thoro- fare from Sierra Madre down to Foothill Blvd. and get on the freeways. At that time the traffic was almost unbearable. You couldn't walk along the street because the traffic was so heavy and so fast. If the barricade is removed, I would venture to guess that the average speed limit would go up at least 10 miles an hour coming down San Carlos. The new stop signs that were put in has been a help but for instance last night I took the dog for a walk and in a space of about a minute and a half when I was walking north on San Carlos from Arbolada 5 cars passed me. The stop sign at Hacienda was observed by 2 of the 5 vehicles, one turned right the other 4 went straight ahead, 3 of the 4 that went straighl virtually made no effort to stop at all and keot right on going. Before they got up to the next stop s{gn at Oaklawn Pl., they were probably doing in exces" I I . Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. July 19, 1983 LUBESHKOFF of 50 miles an hour. In the morning when you walk there you can hear the cars coming from Orange Grove and by the time they get wound up down they have a hard time stopping at Arbolada at that stop sign let alone at Hacienda. I feel that removal of the barricades would just increase the traffic and increase the speed on Arbolada and a lot of people like to walk that area because it is enjoyable to walk but you can't walk when the traffic is so heavy that it becomes life endangering. Thank you. LOJESKI Thank you Mr. Lubeshkoff. Good evening my name is John McConaghy' and I live at 515 Arbolada. We are priv- ileged in this country to be able to enjoy the freedom of local government and in some parts of this world you can't and part of that privilege or part of the benefits of that privilege is the advantage of serving the local interest. I would like to touch on just a few points-the pros and cons of this local interest. The paramount matter I believe is safety. Those streets do not have sidewalks. Anybody walking as a pedestrian, kids playing whether they are in their drive- way or whatever; they are going to end up sooner or later walking along that street. Now, I just heard not toolong ago about the problem of having a wall blocking views some several feet back from the street. When you drive along San Carlos you will notice that there are trees, bushe~.whatnot,all the way out to the curb. There are definite areas along that street where a kid can take 2 steps and be well into the traffic zone. Now I have lived here since prior to the freeway and prior to the cutting through of Baldwin, south from Foothill and we have seen a very dramatic jump in traffic and I happened to have been involved in'considering these matters since that time and I have seen those figure~s. The city has those figures of the dramatic increase of traffic once Baldwin south from Foothill was opened and once the freeway was Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. . :... July 19, 1983 McCONAGHY put in, both at the same time. We have seen quite a decrease now with the advent of the barrier and additionally now the advent of the stop signs. So touconsider removing those, I think is clearly to the detriment of the safety of the neighborhood. I have heard some comments in the audience tonight that people have lived here for many, many years and there hasn't been anyone killel Dr any major accident in this area. Well, may that continue ~ but there are changes, changes have come, to our area. One of the biggest seems to have been the cutting through of Baldwin as I have mentioned and there also would appear if you watch the way people drive on the street and also down Arbolada to get to that exit from Arbolada ontc Foothill, you see a tendency of people apparently trying to beat the other traffic going around the other way because it is defin- itely a very rapid process. There has been a mention by the previous speaker that people are running the stop signs at present. People are also disobeying the requirements of that barrier and coming around it any way. Apparently az number of people are not doing so and that is helping cut back but I understand the problem that Arcadia has, as every community'has these days, that we can't afford just an unlimited supply of police protection. You can't ba;Mcl'loikei;l~! up there watching those stop signs at'all times of the day and night and by cut- ting through that barrier again, I would suggest that one of the dangers that does exist with stop signs,namely, that people tend to rely on them going one way and somebody else comes through and does not obey them going the other and there is an accident. ,To cut through the barricade' would be to invite or to aggravate that possibility. Finall~ just a point about the people that I am sure you will hear from tonight that are adamant about pulling out that bar- ricade. The barricade does not stop anyone from walking through there. It not stop anyone from taking a bicycle through there and in fact it does not Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. I ,1 qe ; ~ I July 19, 1983 McCONAGHY stop anyone in an automobile if ~ they don't care about the law or they happened to be so desperately in need of a hurry, in such a hurry, that they feel obligated to viola~the posted requirements. The alternative is to drive in a car and that is the only really limitation on anyone is to drive in a car 2 country blocks west to Baldwin. One country block east on Foothill to go south on the Baldwin, south of Foothill. There is no other advantage from the standpoint of other than visiting residents in that area of cutting through that area because if you proceed down Orange Grove to the east you come to Santa Anita which is 'the first through street between Baldwin and Santa Anita. So I think we are looking at a condition that has clearly proven to be of bene- fit to the neighborhood. I think we are looking at a conditon that has very minimal detriments to those who wish to drive between Sierra Madre and Foothill Blvd. and to even consider that that additional time spent in the automobile which is the only limitation on anyone, is clearly being selfish and against the concept of safety in Arcadia. Thank you. LOJESKI Thank you Mr. McConaghy Next. My name is Bernice Walde and I have lived for 27 years on San Carlos Road in the Santa Anita Oaks. It is a nice residental area in Arcadia, however, given traffic conditions at certain timer., I might just as well live on a thoroughfare. We have the traffic barrier at Orange Grove and the 3 stop signs between Orange Grove and Foothill. They have helped tremendously and I don't see how these could adversely ~ffect anyone in any Arcadia residence. However, many of the trafficers from up north as has been stated, apparently don't intend to observe the law in either regard. I)many times stand at the window of my living room and watch the cars ignore first the no through sign at Orange Grove and then the I Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. , ,..1 ~~.... ,,'. July 19, 1983 WALDE first stop sign also. I can't see beyond that one. So since there seems to be no way to make them observe the law, the!)olice patrol helps but it has no last- l, ing effect. After a little while they forget about it. The only way to correct the problem is to put up, in my opinion, a permanent closure. We certainly should not remove the barrier. That would put us right back where we started I speed limit returned. We there should be any difference and I would be very happy also to see that 25 mph do live in a residental area and I don't see way between our street and some other street. It, is all residental. It should be the fixed 25 mph speed limit. At least I would hope so and if it is a question of a problem,between the wishes of the people of Sierra Madre and the wishes of the people of Santa Anita Oaks, I'think the ruling should and must favor the residents of ' Arcadia who live on San Carlos because we are the ones that are effected. Thank you for your attention. LOJESKI Thank you Mrs. Walde. My name is Clyde Stauff and I live at 1401 Rancho Road in Arcadia. I grew up in Arcadia and left it to go to college and bought a home in an area that was Santa Anita Oaks some 2 years ago. I think one of the reasons I wanted, to buy there is I thouqht it would be an excellent place to raise a family. I have a 3 year old son and a 4 year old daughter. I think the greatest disappointment that my wife and I have with the area has been the traffic. There is a non-stop stream of cars up and down. I know on my street, I have also observed it on San Carlos/but more disappointing than that is the manner in which the cars are operated which has been continually irresponsible. I have had my lawn driven on four times. There is constantly tire marks out at every intersection anund_ I there seems to be a lack of available police support to enforce the law. fortunately by the time anyone can call the police, the offenders are long gon STAUFF I LOJESKI D~N I Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. July 19, 1983 I don't really see a solution, an affordable solution from the city's stand- point in terms of police enforcement. What I think we are hearing tonight is that streets such as Santa Anita and Baldwin and Orange Grove which are really designed to handle traffic require that drivers go an additional one half a minute to a minute out of their way and that is such an inconvenience that those drivers have no consideration for the residents who are trying to enjoy some peace of mind in their homes without a constant stream of tire squealing by the front windows. I think the problem is greater in the area than the San Carlos barricade, if you will. I think there will be based on the homeowner's meet- ings that I've attended,' greater concern over this problem. I think that un- fortunately there is no plan from the city or no direction to alleviate the problem by encouraging traffic on Santa Anita or on Baldwin and I know I don't enjoy living on a thoroughfare. I somewhat envy the San Carlos barricade. I wish there were one on my street. Short of that I would think it was the city's responSibility to enforce reasonable residential speed limits which is not occurring at this point. I,like the speaker before me, do not wish to see one of'my children either killed or maimed so that we can obtain adequate pro- tection. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Stauff. Aqain you are addressing the council if you are in opposition to the removal of the traffic barriers at San Carlos and Orange Grove. Thank you Mr. Mayor my name is Gary Dorn and'I live at 1410 Rancho Road and I am President of the Santa Anita Oaks Homeowners Association. Late in 1982 the City Manager wrote ~ our association and asked us for input with re- spect to the traffic diverter at San Carlos and Orange Grove. Specifically he asked if we would seek information from our members with respect to whether the Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. 1.:~2 ~( July 19, 1983 DORN diverters should be removed, remain in place or remain in place and improved. He asked that we do so not only with respect to the total area but also with respect to those along San Carlos. In early January Mr. Howard, the Director of Public Works, wrote us a similar letter and in mid-January of this year, , we did send out a survey to our members and to all residents located within the Santa Anita Oaks. The response to that survey we communicated to you in our letter of February 10th and I would like to review a couple of items from that letter. First of all, we sent out approximately 467 letters and received 222 replies. A direct mail response of 50% I think ind,icates some interest in the issue by the people that were surveyed. The survey indicated that in ex- cess of 60% of the people,in the entire Santa Anita Oaks were in favor of main- taining the barrier or improving it. Only 40% wanted it removed. With the re- spect to thesqu~st~on of those people along San Carlos, there were 33 responses from Deople who live on San Carlos, 28 wanted it to remain and 5 want it to be removed. In other words 85% 'of those people on San Carlos wanted it to remain. In deference to these figures I think the a:ssociatjon is in support of maintain- ing the barricade or improving it~ preferably the latter. LOJESKI Mr. Darn I have a question. I happened to also have a colored map in front of me. I presume which was constructed by the Homeowners Association. DORN LOJESKI It was given to the council at a meeting subsequent to the inquiry. I notice 1410 Rancho which I believe is your address, you are in favor of re- moving the traffic diverter? DORN ~:ca~r::d:::d~::;O:~S'AsIal:::t:: ::n:::t~O:da:h:::e::::Sd:f;::::td:::nO:r~raf-1 Stauff who lives down on the corner, I get somewhat of a sadistical pleasure Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. July 19, 1983 DORN to watch the faces on the people that come north on Rancho,hit the gutters at Hacienda and gO,airborne and by the time they hit my house, the visual express- ion on their faces is a memorable one. I am not here representing myself. I I am here representing the association and as an association our association has voted 60 - 40,to maintain the barricade and especially ,to support the individuals who live on San Carlos who 85% are in favor of the barricade. LOJESKI Thank you for the' clarification. Anyone else in opposition to this item? . ZONVER My name is' Fran Zonver and I 1 ive at 340 Arbolada which is the southeast corner of Arbolada and San Carlos. Since the barricade has gone up ~t the corner of Orange Grove and San Carlos, the traffic has diminished quite a bit. Since the stop signs have gone up, it is alarming how I would say over half of the traffic that we used to have has since ceased. I have a 14t year old son who rides a bike. Every morning, we remodeled a year and a half ago, our kitchen is located right on the corne~ and we sit there in horror at watching the speed of people going through the stop sign at San Carlos and Arbolada, not stopping half of the time, children crossing Arbolada on their way to school. For the first time since I've lived in the house, and I have lived there 6 years now, I feel the safest I have ever felt, as far as children's safety, and I only hope and pray that we don't have to have the death of a child in order for us to keep these stop signs and the safety and the barricade at Orange Grove in order to instill the fact that the traffic factor is tremendous. Thank you. LOJESKI Thank you Mrs. Zonver. I CLARK My name is Jim Clark. I live at 1434 San Carlos Road which is about 3 houses south of Orange Grove. I don't know what more I could say after you people have just listened to a lady who has a young son living on the street and she CLARK LOJESKI Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. July 19, 1983 certainly has expressed the feeling of everybody, the fear that there is going to be an accident, the serious one if the traffic is permitted to ,expand to what it used to be prior to the existing barricade. I find the inconvenience is a minor inconvenience and anyone who in the Santa Anita Oaks finds this to be a major factor, I am sorry-they should get off the existing cul-de-sac allld '!jd,nGl , out what it is like to live on a throughway such as San Carlos was before the barricade. I don't find that setting a barricade as being a big precedent, certainly it is not exactly a world event as somebody implied. There are many streets around the country that have been blocked off. I think we can point to one right down here across from the shopping center and here in Arcadia. Certainly the city of South Pasadena blocked off a street, completely blocked it off in Los Angeles and obviously it met with some opposition but it is still blocked off. My wife gave me a little clipping from the morning paper, the Los Angeles Times, which seems to be ,rather appropos. Ty'affic barriers that divert cars from its residential streets to main thoroughfares will remain legal after next January 1, under a law signed byGO'\7'et.tlG1I' George Deukmejian. I won't read the rest of the article but if you gentlemen have not seen this, I'll be glad to give you this little clipping here. I don't want to take up any more time and repeat what has already,been said. All I can tell you is we are happy that the barricade is there. We would like to see a better looking one if you will but we are happy that it is there. We would be very unhappy if you took it out and we think that the city council that put this in acted in good faith and their faith has been proven and I sincerely hope this city council~will not see fit to make any drastic changes such as re- moving a barricade. Thank you very much. Thank you Mr. Clark. I O'TOOLE ,~ " ,. Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. 'J ~, -';)- July 19, 1983 I'm Tom O'Toole. I live at 285 W. Foothill which is the second house from the corner of San Carlos. I,too like some of the other orevious speakers am a walker at night but at times I have had to become a diver. I'd like to have a dollar for every time I had to dive into somebody's bushes to avoid cars '7' roaring down that very area. More importantly though I don't know af anyone of you has ever observed the school bus trying to make a left hand turn from Hacienda on to San' Carlos. Now if you ever have a vehicle that size and watch those 4-whee1 drive vehicles come down San Carlos at you, that is sheer terror. I do wish that we had the school bus driver here who could give you some of her experiences on that corner. I fail to understand why we keep going through this. A few years ago this question came up and at that time the idea was to have barriers at 4 or 5 different points to slow down the flow of traffic and we had discussion-I recall-with the Fire Department and the Police Department and the final settlement of this was one, just one barrier to slow down the traffic. Now if that barrier were not effective, there wouldn't be any ques- tions being asked as far ~s I can see. So let's let it remain and be effec- tive. LOJESKI Thank you Mr. O'Toole. SAVAGE I My name is Savage (Lloyd P.). I live at 1326 San Carlos and this is the third time that I have spoken to the council on this matter. I would like to say in opening that we appreciate the fact that something was done back when this first meeting concerning the area was held. That was what we asked primarily, Just do something for us because it was an impossible situation and the barrier was a result of it. We had another meeting following that which ,considered be- cause'the first decision as I understand it, was a temporary or trial period and the second meeting was to determine would we continue with what had been Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. July 19, 1983 SAVAGE established in the beginning and again it was prolonged and again our apprec- iation should be stated. Now more recently and I wonder whether i't was coinci- dental that we had an accident about 11:30 at night coming out of Hacienda, hitting the fire hydrant on San Carlos and putting the water out until some time around 8:00 or 9:00 o'clock the following morning. I know I appreCiated' it because the regulator in my home and the control of the water pressure burst and the city department took care of it. The thing about this in the concern about damages was that I was informed by an official of the water department that unfortunately the driver of this vehicle had no insurance. So including the repairs on my property as well as the repairs to that hydrant in adjacent property, apparently the city was going to undertake that all on itself. It was a high speed accident. Now my concern at this point when we talk in terms of removing these things that have been established to help us in the beginning is why? If you listen to the scuttlebutt that comes through you hear all these stories about people from Sierra Madre being very unhappy with people in Arcadia or about the fact that we are prohibiting them from our streets. I made the statement originally that was never our intention and I don't believe that it is the intention of anyone on the street to pro- hibit anyone from Sierra Madre to drive those streets. What we would like to have them do as well as our own Arcadia residents, is to drive them reasonably. That is all we have asked. In the first meeting, the police representative pointed out to us that you people,of San Carlos Road are going to have to ob- serve the same requirements as the visitors to that street and that is true, we do. There are three stop signs there and each one of us as residents is rl qui red to stop at those signs and the same thing is true at the barrier at th head of the street on Orange Grove. So there is nothing imposed upon a visitor Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. SAVAGE to our section that impairs his ability to drive on those streets if he drtves reasonably as we ourselves do not have July 19, 19B3 observe. _,.:, ',:"i:.... "to '..:/ The speed 1 imit there is 30 mph. There is a divider in the street and there are sidewalks there and we have 35 mph on San Carlos where there are no sidewalks and where there are blind corners"that do impede the vision , of oncoming cars at certain points. I have never understood why San Carlos under those circumstances if you compare it to something like Baldwin would Come into the same category as a speed limit. You look just down the street from us on Foothill and it is,40 miles per hour and again you have the dividers and again you have some sidewalks and, it is only,35 mph on San Carlos, there are no sidewalks and if there is any driver' who was that careful with 5 mph of his speed, he would be hard to locate. Just about everything has been said before relative to the speeding on San Carlos, I agree with 100%. I too, walk] my dog. I walk him at night, I walk him in the afternoon and I am constantly concerned with the speed of cars that are coming and going. I try to face the oncoming traffic but repeatedly I pull him into a driveway or onto someone's lawn or even into the bushes just to be certain. It is never that safe and you don't have a safe feeling walking those streets. The people who violate the speed and the ordinances of our area are not only visitors, they are some of our own. Motorcycles are a very good example of it. There are also some flatbed,. trucks that habitually go bombing through the stop signs. Now my neighbor and I have specifically watched one flatbed truck and we have yet to find his license number and we do believe he is from Sierra Madre however, rather than being local. I should have put that in the proper order. I say we pre- I sume him to be from Sierra Madre because he goes through the barricade area on to Orange Grove and goes north. He has a little habit that when he hits the stop sign and goes right on through it at high speed, he blows his horn which is in my way of looking at it, a way of th(umbing his nose at you. If you happen to Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. , July 19, 1983 SAVAGE be standing in your driveway as my neighbor and I have been, he gives you an obscene gesture. Now we have tried to get his license number unsuccessfully at this point cause he goes pretty fast but through past experience have known that if I were to get that license number and pass it on to the police, they could do nothing about it. There is no way in which any detection of that license plate would result in any prohibition of that kind of act. He does this in the morning, he does this in the evening and he does it late at night. We have observed him and as I say we are still trying to catch that license number for what use I do not know. It is a deliberate flaunting of the stop signs. It is a deliberate flaunting of the barrier and fortunately it is representative of a small minority of people who do this. We do believe that I the barrier has reduced the speed on the street, has reduced the noise on the street and the stop signs have further helped us. We would not want to see any of these assets removed. Thank you. LOJESKI Mr. Savage. Approximately what time through the day does this flatbed roll through? SAVAGE I would say, of course I am guessing because my neighbor and I are out there tal~ng usually in the driveway when we see it but 4 o'clock in the afternoon is the time that it comes to my attention. 10:00 or 11;00 o'clock at night when I have been out there with my dog and then early in the morning in the vicinity of 8:00 o'clock. He also, we believe it is the same one, he also has a conven- tional car looks like the same person, I can't be sure of that, but we do think it is the same one who is doing the same thing. In other words his cha'racter- istics are the same. He blows his horn when he goes through the stop sign at tit high speed and give you obscene gestures if he happens to see you standing th~ SAVAGE LOJESKI , HOWARD LOJESKI WATTS I HOWARD LOJESKI Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc July 19, 1983 watching him. Thank you very much. I think our police department would enjoy that information. Mr. Chet Howard. Would you please explain to the benefit of the audience exactly how speed limits are set on various streets. Yes, your honor. No.1 we ClO through a speed zon,i:rig study for the benefit of the police department. Once we do the zoning 'study then they can employ radar in the enforcement of a properly established limit. In order to properly establish the limit, they conduct a radar speed study, taking samples of not less than 100 cars. From those 100 cars we determine what the 85th percentile speed is. The 85th percentile speed is defined as that speed at or below which 85% of the traffic is travelling that street. In addition to that information, we take into consideration accident statistics and roadway alignment and based on that we recom- mend an appropriate speed limit which'is subsequently presented to and approved by the city council. Then we file that information with the courts and so far they have upheld those speed 1 imits. Now in the fall of this year we will be restudying the entire city but as I have commented earlier due to the change and condition on San Carlos, we can restudy that within the next few weeks. Thank you Mr. Howard. I think that is a benefit to the audience. Mr. Howard. What would happen if we did a 'speed study again on San Carlos and found that the speed was 30 mph but we went in and put in speed signs that said 25 mph and our police department ticketed people for going over 25 mph. What would happen in that case? Most probably the Traffic Commissioner would invalidate the citations. Thank you gentlemen. Anyone else in the audience wishing to speak in opposition of this item? Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. p, July 19, 1983 COPE Mr. Mayor, councilmen. I'm Perry Cope and I live at 1231 San Carlos Road. The previous gentleman mentioned the accident on San Carlos earlier and I was the victim of that. I know he had no insurance because he was in my front yard. We looked at this whole question a number of years ago when I was on the Home- owners Board and we ,looked, I think, at just about every possible solution thatl there was to this problem because it occurred over a period of year.s. ' It is not a new issue and after a couple of years of studying and working with people in the city, we kind of narrowed it down to, first off was total closure. 100% solution but that was a little bit too dramatic. We looked at the speed bumps. We looked at the dips. We looked at, the tigerteeth. These were all thrown out or recommended that we not pursue those things, or that we not push for those things, or that we not recommend those things to the city. We got down to look- ing at just a few alternatives available to us. One of them, of course, was barricades, a combination of barricades and stop signs, stop signs only, do nothinf except to have a 100% police protection which I don't think anyone could afford and we took the most economical route and what we thought was the least disrup- tiveand that was the barricades. I don't know anything else that we could have done, less than having a police car there a large majority of the time, that would have worked as effectively as economically as that. We are now sitting in a situation where we have had barricades which worked fairly well, according to reports, they didn't work totally and, that is why we have the stop signs. We still have people go through there at high rates of speeds and now the city is putting the stop signs which certainly has improved the situation so we have a combination barricades and stop signs. If you start moving backwards in descel ing order from that, go back to just barricades only, no stop signs, or no sto signs and no barricades, you are going to have increased police protection. Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. July 19, 1983 I COPE No question about it. In talking about the expense of the barricades and maintaining them or expense of anything else, nothing in my opinion is going to come up and cost as much money as increased police protection. Now I think it will work with stop signs if you have increased police protection but I don't know if the city is able to do that. That is why the barricades worked. So it is a difficult question and it is one in the Oaks up there and the Home- owner's Group has worked with for years but that is what it comes down to, the bottom line on this thing. Either keep what we have or start backing off from that and start paying more money for it. Thank you. LOJESKI Thank you Mr. Cope. Anyone else in the audience? The question has come up a couple of times already in regards to sidewalks. Sidewalks are available ladies and gentlemen but there is a specific way of doing that and if there is an interest I suggest you contact Mr. Chester Howard at city hall who would be more than happy to explain that orocedure to you. BROWN My name is Joseph Brown and I live at 1409 San Carlos Road. I too, have been up here three or four times and it seems to me that we should put this to bed once and for all.' What seems to be going on iS,as new board members come on, somebody somehow gets the bright well, maybe we can eliminate it. What they don't real- ize is that those stop signs and that barricade is as inconvenient or more in- convenient to us, the residents of San Carlos, as it is to anybody else because we are directly effected. We are directly effected because we do shop in Sierra Madre, our children do attend schools in that area and we do transport them so are we have to go around. ,It is not a big Taj Mahal that we/building for ourselves I inside there-an exclusive country club. What it is we are trying to make the street safe for the people in the area, the neighbors, our children, so that they can walk down the side of the street. We are not playing football games BROWN Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. I.f:? 1 f~X ''':,- ~ July 19 , 1983 like we use to out in the middle of the street. We are just tryin9 to survive along the corner, along the gutters but the traffic problem has not allowed us to do that. Now we put up a barricade and the idea of that was, it was going to be a trial period. Originally as I recall it was going to be a simple in- expensive barricade and it was going to be supported by the traffic count WhiChl I am sure shows a dramatic decrease in the traffic and this was going to give you people an indication of whether a permanent barricade was going to be in- stalled. You said that it would take a year's study and at that time, if the traffic count warranted it, that you would put in a permanent and something that wasn't an eyesore that the city and residents could live with. As far as I am concerned, you could put barbed wire around there, r would prefer it to be nice but the effect that it has is that it does decrease the traffic. Now those people and they are obviously coming from Sierra Madre that go around the bar- ricade are not going to stop for your pretty little stop signs because they just broke one law, what's the difference if they break another one, two or three down the street. The installation of a permanently designed barricade, triangular shape, 2 or 3 feet off the ground made out of concrete would definitely be more inconvenient to circumvent than what you have now. 'All you are doing now is scraping tires. If you made it properly like you see in freeway construction, it would be 2 or 3 feet off the ground, there would be planting in there and nobody is going to scrape a tire. You are going to rip a fender. This is going to persuade people not try and cut that corner. Now if they want to come in there, they can go in there the same way I go in there. If I want to go in there I have to turn off of Baldwin, go down Orange Grove and turn right. If I want to leave going that way I have to come up to Orange Grove and turn It is as inconvenient for me as it is anybody else and all I would like BROWN I LOJESKI IN FAVOR RAKlCH LOJESKI JAHNKE I Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. ~ I'. July 19, 1983 is that you have the facts in front of you and I,think it is time now after 6 years that this problem has been going on and wasting the City Council's time over something that is not that important because you have a whole city to run, let's get it put away once and for all. Thank you very much. Thank you Mr. Brown. Anyone else wishing to speak in favor'of keeping the barricades? Those in favor of removing the barricades. My name is John Rakich.. I reside at 185 Upper'San Carlos which is called 185 So. Mountain Trail Avenue. I have lived there for 20, years. I have always come down San Carlos, never had' any problem until they put the barrier up. Now I have to go a half a mile out of my way to get to the mall or any place in central Arcadia which amounts to about 300 miles a year'or 150 days for a lot of people in Sierra Madre and the odd thing about it is that when I come south on Mountain Trail, I cannot cross Orange Grove because of the sign, but when I am going north on San Carlos, I cannot leave Arcadia because of the sign. I have to turn right so what kind of a situation is that and another thing~San Carlos is a street only 4 tenths of a mile long with 5 stop signs and I defy anybody with a compact tar to drive 35 miles an hour on San Carlos without going through a stop sign and I think the barricades should be removed in order to promote good,relations with the citizens of Sierra Madre which in- cludes me and I also would like to be reimbursed for 2 citations amounting to $64.00. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Rakich. Fred Jahnke, 11 Hacienda Drive, Arcadia. Hacienda is the only street that has not been mentioned tonight as having a high speed problem in relation tO,an accident. The accident that you heard about was high speed on Hacienda. It stopped on San Carlos. I would like to note several things. I recognize the seriousness of JAHNKE Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. ,July 19, 1983 the situation but I think you gentlemen are faced with the old adage when you are ,up to your elbows in alligators it's hard to remember that you have come to drain the swamp and I think that is where you find yourselves this evening. When this whole issue started it was a question of safety down San Carlos. I think really the meat of it is that where it still lies. Safety is not neces- , sarily the number of cars going down the street. It is th~~ speed and the way in which they drive. I do not think that the barricade has served to slow the speed on San Carlos at all. I think Mr. Howard's surveys will show that to you'. I think the stop signs although very recent, have by Mr. Howard's testi- mony already put a dent in the speed and thus in the safety along, San Carlos. I think strong enforcement of those 'for a period of time will certainly net the safety which we are looking for. I think Mr. Mayor your comment relative to the ability of the citizens to put in sidewalks on that street is a very valid one. If the citizens are willing for the city to spend the kind of money they are asking to be spent here for their particular street, I think they should] take a strong look at putting in the sidewalks themselves under the city plan. I would also submit that the barricade in itself is a hazard. Let me note that I do not'drive San Carlos north or south, nor do I drive north of'San Carlos. I do drive along Orange Grove Street both in the morning and in the afternoon and again at noon time almost every day. I have seen enough near misses there when there is not a patrol car sitting by, from the people who do not observe the barrier, as we all know they do not observe the barrier and it is an unex- pected type of situation. I think you must remember that the barricade is not something normally encountered by drivers. Stop signs are something ,normally I encountered by drivers. I think therefore, you have the risk and the hazard of the barricade. I think you also' have the people who essentially make obscene JAHNKE , I Traffic Barriers, San Carlos etc. .'e let ~ " July 19, 1983 gestures at the barricade. They don't believe in it and they are not going to follow it,and unfortunately or fortunately as the case may be, you cannot design that barricade to absolutely prohibit north, south traffic. I don't care if'its 1 foot high or 3D feet high, it cannot absolutely prohibit north, south traffic and I think Mr. Howard will testify to that when he tried to engineer it the first time coming up against state law that just made it impossible to engineer it that way. Therefore, I think the barricade is unenforceable. I think that the stop signs over a period of time will do a far better job in enforcing safety there. I also object as a tax payer in this'city as much as I would like to have a pri- vate, semi-private or a barricaded street on Hacienda where there is also high speed traffic, I object because it is expensive. I don't know how many times , .' I've seen the signs ripped off of there after a holiday weekend or whatever and I know that the crew has to go up and replace them that is not cheap. Another $5,000 to $9,000 to put in a "proper barricade'! is another expense to the city. One which I'don't think will achieve anything. I think to a large extent the barricade as it stands is somewhat of an insult to our neighbors in Sierra Madre and there may be a 1 ughter about that but I feel ,it very strongly.' I would also say that I think it is discriminatory, it is discriminatory to those of us who would also like to have a semi-private street who have not banded to- gether to badger the city council to put that in for us and frankly we have no intention of it but I think it flies in the face of the definition of a public access and public streets and as I say I think what we want to remember is what . we are trying to do is provide safety for that area. I think stop signs are proving that they will provide that and I think sidewalks will further better that situation. I do not feel that the barricade has accomplished or will accomplish any degree of safety for the residents or anyone in that area. Thank YOI Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. July 19, 1983 LOJESKI Thank you Mr. Jahnke. FASCHING My name is Georqe Fa~ching. I live at 1451 Oaklawn Road. Gentlemen I am in opposition to this barricade and hereby request its removal. However, I must admit before 1 go to mY notes that I have writ~en out here, that in listening to the people that are in favor of keeping the barricade, I had an impulse of , possibly getting up and leaving and thinking to mYself, they all make sense and why am I here, because we are all interested in safety and we are all interested in the residential quality of our neighborhoods but yet as I listened on I couldn't help but feel that the same people saying those things regarding t San Carlos, could be the same people living on First Avenue or Camino Real or Longden Avenue, many other streets in our city that would like the same consia- eration of a barricade and implementation of many stop signs to slow down traffic and much heavier concentrated residential areas than we are talking about here on San Carlos Road., So for that reason my opposition to this barricade will continue very s~rongly. At the conclusion of this public hear- ing, it will be your responsibility to rule on the San Carlos Road barricade. In reaching your decision you must set aside the emotion and friendship that naturally you feel for both sides in this matter and base your decisions strictly on facts. Some of the facts are these. There has never ,been a pedes- trian accident involving an automobile on San Carlos Road. The maintenance and surveillance of this barricade is an undue financial imposition' on our commun- ity and our city cannot adopt a policy of street barricades without utmost justification for the safety of life and property. Such justification does not, sented to the residents of the Oaks is secondary to the precedent it is pre- I settin exist on San Carlos Road. The personal inconvenience of this barricade July 19, 1983 FASCHING and the animosity it has created particularly with our neighbors in Sierra Madre. As for precedent I can see no reason why other residential streets and residents of those areas would not have to be treated with equal control measures if so requested. This could open up a pandora's box. You also have recently seen fit to erect 2 additional sets of stop signs on San Carlos. These stop signs are not an issue here this evening but I would like to point out to you that based on Automobile Club of South California statistics, you have helped approximately 1,000 daily motorists on San Carlos Road to spend an additional, $15,600 a year in vehicle operation expense; taken 2400 hours of their time in stopping and caused them to buy 6600 gallons more of gasoline. Also from their emissions stopping at these two additional sets of stop signs, we are breathing annually 12,400 more pounds of carbon monoxide, 900 pounds of hydrocarbons and 900 pounds of nitrous oxides. I hear some laughter behind me and I guess it is rather amusing but these are stark facts gentlemen when you start treating streets the way you have done with San Carlos. Quite frankly, I am surprised at the extreme restrictive measures taken on San Carlos Road and mind you none of this requested or recommended by any agency within our city, this including the police department and street engineering. Gentlemen, I reiterate this barricade should go. In addition to those in the audience tonight supporting this measure, I would like to submit an additional 46 signed requests from Oaks residents who are not able to attend this meeting here tonight. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Fasching. My name is Keith Smith and I live at 420 Arbolada Drive. That's 1 house off of San Carlos. Honorable Mayor and council, you have seen me address this august group several times regarding this very same issue and I have not changed my mind , LOJESKI I SMITH Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. ...C July 19, 1983 SMITH one iota. I am an ex California Highway Patrol Officer and I have some ex- perience in traffic control over the years. I feel that we ,are making a tempest in a teapot out of this San Carlos situation and I agree 100% with Geogge Fasching in how he has oresented it. After looking at the figures that were I believe "" "th",d by th, ""o',t;,o ;t"lf, "t ,f 476 p"p1, o,ot,ot,d ,oly 222111i responded and out of those 222, 119 mind you that means 119 out of 467 people in that area, agreed that that barricade should stay there. I don't believe that is a good representation. I believe it represents a pressure group, a minority pressure group trying to force their will on the whole 'Santa Anita Oaks. I believe after listening to these people cry that I think we should reresurr~ct the Ohio Electric, and everybody' change at the bottom of San Carlos and,drive up to the top in an Ohio Electric. I just cannot believe it. I think that I am a pretty good judge of speed. I am afraid that some of these people are not through no fault of their own, they are just not trained. I was trained to know within a mile or'two about how fast a car was moving when I was on the highway patrol. Otherwise I would be made a fool of. I don't believe the speeds are'what they are talking about and I have lived there 32 years and there has been no death in that area in those 32 years and as far as LOJESKI I can figure out there have only been 2 personal injury accidents over that period of time. I won't rely on that 2, there may have been more but I do feel that we are literally shutting off a thoroughfare that should not be shut off, much less what we are doing to a neighborhood city who rely upon ,that street to go to and from their homes, work and pleasure. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Smith. FLINN My name is James Flinn and I live at 1112 San Carlos Road, north of Foothill and I have lived there for 24 years. I have never seen the kind of traffic I I I fFitful LOJESKI LAUBER Tri:,j'fic Barriers San Carlos etc. ~ July 19, 1983 that I have heard described by those who want to keep that barricade up there. I have walked my dog thousands of times and I have walked with my wife and my children on that street and I don't recall ever having heard of a pedes- trianc car accident there. I have appeared' before this group several times before. Originally as the President of The Homeowner's Association and I'm delighted to know that the present incumbent in that office voted against it because I've always voted against it. I vote against it because it is inef- fective. I am retired now and I have had ample opportunity to go up and watch what goes on and virtually no one pays any attention unless a police car happens to be sitting there. If there is no police car visible, they go barrelling through and the most dramatic change that we have seen has occurred since the stop signs were put in. While perhaps not everybody agrees to stop at their stop signs and I "have seen a few people go through them, the bulk of the people do stop. It is a much more effective device than the barricade. I am also against the barricade because it denies all of us who live on San Carlos Rd. full access to our property which other people who live in this city enjoy. We should not be discriminated against in that manner. I agree with Mr. Fasching. I agree with all the data that he has and I would like very much to see you gentlemen vote in favo r of the removal of that barricade. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Flinn. I am Floretta K. Lauber and I reside at lL25 Oaklawn Road. Good evening gentle- men. I am here to testify that my husband and I are adamantly opposed to the barrier and always have been. We acquiesced several years ago with the Home- owner's Association compromise,!, There were a few who wanted to put gates on the entire area. We are not isolationists. We did not move' into Arcadia to have ourselves barricaded against the outside or to keep our friends and Traffi~ Barriers San Carlos Etc. July 19, 1983 LAUBER neighbors from approaching our home in a normal manner. It appears that we live in an entirely different street or area listening to some of my neighbors and good friends here this evening because we walk also and we are retired. I have never seen,a problem. Perhaps I have had some experience as you have, I remember sitting on the Planning Commission for 8 years and having people request speed bumps, dips etc. and you know as well as I do that that is illegal. I feel that the barricade is a very poor execution of planning. I There is no justification and there never has been but since we compromised to have a barricade there, we decided'to live with it but out of the blue, we find one morning that we now have 4 stop signs. Now I don't know how many of you council- men have had the'opportunity to visit San Carlos but I would like you to come up and just park, come on over and visit me. We will drive over, walk over. You wi'l1 find a very peaceful area, completely void of the hassle, the harass- ment that you have heard testified tonight.' In no way, in no way can you justi- fy 4 stop signs and a barricade. It is like a war zone. To begin with it is sight pollution at its highest form. There are 13 little signs or reflectors on that 1 barricade. I don't know how many times even though I have got used to it and I try very carefully to turn in properly, it has knocked our wheels out of alignment and this is no small matter and I resent it. I bought there in 1966. I thought Raymond Dorn did an excellent job of laying out that area. We really do not have a problem and I truly resent being made a prisoner in my own area. Since the terms of the game have changed and we now have these LOJESKI ~tra stop signs, then it appears to me that the only legitimate and equitable compromise that we can now have is to remove the barricade. We certainly do I not need them all. Thank you. Thank you Mrs. Lauber. Anyone else wishinq to speak in favor of 't!1mOVa!1l-22 Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. July 19, 1983 LOJESKI of the barricades? Sierra Madre Trail/and it appears WILWERDING My name is Jerry Wilwerding and I live at 215 So. Mountain to me that the strong opposition of the vested interestQ,i group association is I a very formidable one. They come here well rehearsed to say the things they have agreed on before in an effort to.sway the elected officials.' Because the Santa Anita Oaks are so well organized they become a major political pressure group. They are the selfish ones because they prevent us from coming into their area. It' is too bad about the many people who are dog walkers. I have dogs too and if I can't walk my dog in the area that I live, I put them in the car and take them somewhere else. I might suggest that if their dog is in hazard, they could do the same. Sierra Madre has no sidewalks. I think our streets are-no they are not as wide as they are on San Carlos. I don't believe in benefits to the few in the Santa Anita Oaks. I doubt that any person in Sierra Madre wishes his child killed or put in jeopardy anymore than the people in the Santa Anita Oaks and I think that is not a good argument. I am a taxpayer in Arcadia. I venture to say that I p.ay more taxes than 90% of the people that 1 ive in the Santa Anita Oaks, Santa Anita area/because I have apartment buildings in Arcadia. It is beneficial to me to c,6me down Mountain Trail and cross at the intersection because I can get down to my apartments at least 3/4 mile more quickly. I think the obstacle should be removed. Not for me but for the benefit of all the people in Sierra Madre and Arcadia. Thank you. LOJESKI Thank you Mr. Wilwerding. Anyone else wishing to speak in favor of removal of the barricade? ' Gentlemen I will entertain a motion to close... I HANNAH I move that we close the public hearing. DRING Second LOJESKI So closed. Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. July 19, 1983 LOJESKI Councilman Haltom HALTOM I probably ,should have stood up in opposition to it because I have always been in opposition to it. Not just because it isolates the people in the Oaks and keeps other people from using it because I feel that it is constitutionally illegal. Streets of Arcadia are not only paid for by the residents of Arcadia I but by all the people of Cal ifornia. They are paid for with tax dollars. ' That who pays to maintain our streets. Not our real estate dollars and I have always felt that it was, constitutionally wrong and unfair not to. have access the streets that I pay for and I have exhibited that when coming south many times and will continue to do so. I think that the council, whether it is this one, previous succumbed ' , one whichever one put barricades,in I' 'to a small pressure group and al10w~d~' their emotions to get a little carried away. I agree that we have an obligation to provide safety for the people up there and I don't know what the answer is. I think the stop signs were a move in the right direction but I know the bar- ricade wasn't. i think all the barricade causes' is a lot of animOSity between the people of Madre aga i nst Arcadia against the peoD1e of Arcadia and the people of Sierra . \"',~.:'irl. "~;iP the people of Arcadia and if we do decide to keep it up there, then I think I'll start an effort to try to get one put up on Longden because I am sure that Longden down by where I live is no wider than San Carlos and I am , reasonably sure it carries more traffic and I can't walk my dog down Longden, definitely.' I can't even run down Longden for the air pollution but' I don't think the barrier is serving its purpose. Thank you. LOJESKI Thank you councilman Haltom. Councilman Pellegrino PELLE Mr. Mayor. I don't feel thPt the pressure groups are a bad thing, I think it il a healthY thing in the city. I think the different restrictions for different parts of our city should be brought to the council. Ihat is the reason we take ~ PELLE I LOJESKI DRING LOJESKI HANNAH I LOJESKI HANNAH Traffic Barriers San Carlos etc. July 19, 1983 our oath of office. We are servants of the public. There are such thin9s as one way streets, there are such things as barriers, stop signs for the purpose of the people that live in the neighborhood that they belong in. I don't know how you would compare the cost or the expense or the maintenance of the costs of the barrier to the costs of a life, We have no record of'lifes thank ~od and we should keep it that way. Speed bumps and stuff of that sort and,tiger teeth carry a heavy liability for the city to even look forward to put in a residential neighborhood and I feel that we should leave ,the barrier until we can reduce the speed on'San Carlos to a residential speed instead of a commercial district. Thank you. Councilman Dring. Have you got anything to add? Not yet. . Councilman Hannah I am sympathetic to the cause of safety in,all cases and I certainly would be sorry to see any accident occur on San Carlos as a result of anything we did here tonight. However I don't think that the situation on San Carlos is much different than it is on many of the streets in Arcadia. I think we have an overall problem of some people violating the speed laws. I know we have the same situation on 'my street. I think we out this barrier up as a temporary measure. I was not on the council at the time that it was erected. It was told to me that it was a temporary '90 day, 9 month barricade. I would like to see it removed on a temporary basis the same way as we put it up on a temporary basis for a period of time and see what happens and at that time I would like to see our law enforcement agency spend extra time in the area to find out 'whether or not the people are violating the laws, what the speed limit is and what have you. Is that a motion? No, it is not a motion. Trilffi.c Barri ers San Carlos etc. July 19, 1983 LOJESKI Going bilCk to the beginning of time on this particular item, I happen to be the only councilman that lives in this directly effected area. I, too live obviously live on a north, south running street, one which traverses through the area and connects Sierra Madre to the north and Foothill Blvd. and: the freeway to the south. In those early days I too walked my street, polled my homeowners and , numbe of me again as a reiteration the main concern from day 1 was speed of cars not of cars and I have to agree that when I start looking at things in front in regards to 1. the condition of the barricade as it has been put up, the conditions of the signs when they go up and immediately come down and immediately go back up again, the expense perhaps in the future of creating a fixed barricade or permanent barricade the expense of ongoing maintenance for such an item and really not fully understanding the effectiveness, I think of the stop signs that were placed. The stop signs were, placed after the poll was taken by the Home- owner's Association and, of interest to those of you in the audience from the letter from Mr. Thurston Le Vay, President, of the Homeowner's Association, he stated that there were comments and letters received, comments in addition to just those that voted and there a number of comments that stated that diverters are not the real answer to the basic problem. It offers a reduction in through traffic as a substitute for the control of speed of through traffic. Many expressions of people against the diverter were that better speed control was desired and many people voting to keep the diverter stated their desire to not restrict the passage of through traffic if adequate speed control can be achieved. I think since traffic control measures, excuse me, speed control measures were placed the only effective measure has been the stop signs. We I have seen through Mr. Howard's statements this evening, through our police department checking with radar the speed of the cars, the speed of traffic has been diminished. Unfortunately no matter how you go on this situation it is a , I LOJESK1 PELLE LOJESK1 PELLE HANNAH LOJESK1 PELLE LOJESK1 HANNAH PELLE HANNAH HOWARD PELLE HANNAH LOJESK1 PELLE Traffic Barriers San Car' os etc. July 19, 1983 no win situation but I think in the best interests of the situation and what have been attempted in the area and in the best interests of what is there now, the removal of the barricade and guaranteeing that there would be an irregular non-patterned patrol of the area by our police officers in keeping the stop signs there, I think will prove to be beneficial in the long run. Thank you. Mr. Mayor, may I try a motion. Councilman Pellegrino. I move that we post the lowest limit of speed on the street that we possibly can enforce and remove the barriers on a' temporary basis. I would second that motion. Would yo~ repeat your motion once again please. I move that we post the lowest speed limit that we possibly can put on the street that is enforceable and remove the barrier on a temporary basis. Any discussion? Seconded by councilman Hannah. When I was talking about a tempor~ry removal I think'we should set a period of time which we can gather some statistics in which we can find out, now has.. I will be glad to include that in my motion. Can you put a time limit in there, say 6 months? My 'recollectionis that the original traffic barrier was to be temporary to be studied over a period of was it 9 months? That was my recollection and for an adequate study period I wouldn't suggest anything less than 6. I would like to include my motion 6 months. I think 9 months is too long. My personal opinion. I second. Would you include in your motion Councilman Pellegrino, irregular non-pattern patrol of the area to insure the maintenance of obeying the stop signs. Yes sir.