Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutAPRIL 24,1984 . "- ~.. l. CITY COUNCIL PROCEEDINGS ARE TAPE RECORDED AND ON FILE I~ THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK I v ROLL CALL BECK/ TARGET (SEE TRANSCRIPT) q'1 0 Y \ \ 1>0 J COUNCIL ROLL CALL o CIVIC 1-\''# CENTER \ PROJECT ~ (SEE TRANSCRIPT) 25 :0931 M I NUT E S CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY, F ARCADIA AND THE ARCADIA REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY ADJOURNED REGULAR MEErING (STUDY SESSION) APRIL 24, 1984 The City Council and Arcadia Redevelopment Agency met in an adjourned regular session at 6:30 p. m. April 24, 1984 in the Arcadia City Hall Conference Room for the purposes of 1) discuss- ing the proposed Beck/Target development and 2) Civic Center facil ity. PRESENT: Agency Members Gi1b, Lojeski, Pellegrino, Young and Hannah ABSENT: None Russ Beckner, Vice President of Dean A. Beck & Associates explain- ed in detail the proposed Target development on the Arcadia Datsun/Third Avenue properties. Target would be composed of 100,000 sq. ft., with 75,000 sq. ft., of related retail stores. A concept drawing was reviewed by the Agency members, Mr. Beckner said, in part, that there would be extensive landscaping, part of which would come from the retail garden portion of the store. Considerable discussion was held on the automotive section and parking, and suggestions were made as to where the parking area might be moved. (TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN PREPARED ON THIS DISCUSSION.) Comments were made on the revenue the City would derive -- about $100,000 plus a year in property tax to the Agency; sales tax from $284,000 in year one to $465,000 in year five to the City, miscellaneous other taxes -- utility, business license, property, estimated at $10,000 to the City. Beck would pay $10,000 for City administrative costs, $15,000 for the Environmental Impact Report and $10,000 for a financial study of the project plus soils, title and other costs. Beck has an option on the Datsun site, but would like to include several properties owned by the City, Agency and other private parties in order to make a more attractive and economically advantageous development (set forth in Plan "B" of the staff report dated April 19, 1984). The ERN (Environmental Impact Report) is scheduled to be presented to the Agency at its May 1, 1984 meeting. The Agency adjourned to May 1, 1984 at 7:00 p. m. COUNCIL CONVENED ON THE FOLLOWING ROLL CALL VOTE: PRESENT: Council Members Gilb, Lojeski, Pellegrino, Young and Hannah ABSENT: None Staff advised on the status of a new civic center complex with reference to a report dated May 1983. Extensive discussion held on the possibility and need of a new civic center complex. The observations by Council and staff have been transcribed for reference and are made part of this minute document. The consensus was that staff proceed with the preparation of a Request for Proposals to include police facility, City Hall, Multi- purpose recreational facility and community auditorium. -1- 4/24/84 ARMORY SITE HOMETEL MAY 22 ARA CLOSED SESSION THIRD AVE APPRAISALS ATTEST: " ~1 ...-" 25:0932 The acquisition and use of the Armory facility was discussed durin9 this consideration and staff will investigate an alternative site for the Armory. Some effort will be given to increasing the parking for the new hotel; also signs and banners were discussed. Scheduled a study session for May 22 at 7:00 p. m. on redevelopment. Council entered a CLOSED SESSION, reconvened and took the following action as reported to the City Clerk by the City Manager/Executive Director of the Redevelopment Agency: MOTION ADOPTED on 5 - 0 vote: Staff to obtain appraisals on the seven remaining parcels of Third Avenue at a cost not to exceed $35.000. Council and the Agency adjourned at 8:15 p.m. to 7:00 p. m., May " 1984. City Cl erk -2- 4/24/84 1 1 1 \j T RAN S C RIP T (INSOFAR AS DECIPHERABLE) RELATING TO ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING/STUDY SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL/ARCADIA REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY ON THE PROPOSED TARGET STORE DEVELOPMENT AND REVIEW OF THE PROPOSED CIVIC, CENTER FACILITY. PROCEEDINGS AT AN ADJOURNED REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING/STUDY SESSION OF APRIL 24, 1984 HANNAH CITY ClK HANNAH WATTS BECKNER 1. We'll call the meeting to order... this is the regular meeting adjourned from April 17 to April 24th. May we have a roll call vote please Madame City Clerk, Gilb- here, lojeski-here, Pellegrino-here, Young-here, and Hannah-here. George Watts. Mr. Watts introduced Mr. Russ Beckner from Beck & Associates. First of all congratulations are. in order to,:1s. Young and t'ir. Gi1b for your recent election to the City Council and I want to say that I appreciate the opportunity to be here this evening. I understand from Mr. Watts and Mr, Kinnahan that we have a limited period of time assigned to us so I really want to devote the majority of that time to giving you an opportunity to ask me questions. I think that all the Council Members have received a copy of, what I call, the Blue Book which was a pre~entation that we made to the former Council in early January. And I understand that from Mr. Kinnahan's office you received kind of an up-date, a summary of our proposal so I think that as far as I know is the information that has been provided to date in addition to Site Plan over there-maybe we ought to put that on the blackboard - lean it up there. A proposed Site Plan for the property and then additionally a rendering of the proposed Target Store. The two - I guess there's a couple of things that I would like to try and accomplish this evening, a couple of points that I would like to try and make. One is that the proposal that will be before' the Council and Redevelopment Agency has been commonly referred to as the Beck-Target Proposal. I want to clear up a ,misunderstanding that may exist that relates to the relationship between those two parties. Dean A. Beck & Associates of Los Angeles is a commercial real estate developer. We deal with a lot of different types of users and we have no affiliationl with the Target or the Dayton Hudson Corp. We are not ~ quote-unquot~ Target developer. Nor does Dayton Hudson or Target have any proprietary 2, BECKNER interest in our company. We, in our work, look for areas, sites that look like they have potential for retail development. We try and analyze the site from a-far, if you will, and then we try and determine what the best user for that site might be. And in that process we do quite a bit of research as it relates to other retail users, major retail users that are in the market who might be eligible for a location, and that of course is determined mostly by who's not in the market. So when we come to you, we're coming to you as a developer, with knowledge of the ,site, of an appreciation of Arcadia and a feeling that Target as a major retail tenant would be an excellent department store for this location and would be an asset to the City. There had been some questions raised as whether or not we did other types of development or whether or not there was an affiliation. I wanted to get that cleared up. Second thing is, that I wanted to give you folks an opportunity to ask me any and all questions that you might have. If I have the answers, if I know the answers I'll tell you, if I don't know the answers I'll try and find out. If I think the answers will be forth coming at some future date I'll tell you that we expect for that to happen'. I would hope that next Tuesday niaht when we meet that the primary focus will be on the document that will, hopefully, have been in complete negotiation and ready f?r signature, and I think that you would expect for us to sign that document prior to next Tuesday niaht. Yes. And that is commonly referred to as the ERN document - which they ask for exclusive right to negotiate. When we became aware of the potential opportunity here we decided that rather than coming to the City on the basis of - 'here we are what can you do for us?' - we decided as a gesture of good faith - that we were serious on this project - to try and come to you on the basis that we had made an arrangement with, what is at least one of the key parcels in this project. Consequently prior to making contact I 3. with the City we contacted the Datsun dealership, and through ne~otiations entered into a long term option with them. We felt that it was important that in a City like Arcadia that we be able to come and say 'we have some ideas, we are spending money, we feel that rather .than coming on the basis of - let me put it this way - coming on any other basis than serious would have been absolutely wrong". The Exclusive Right to Negotiate is a docu- in ment that will allow, assuming that you folks are/concurrence, approximately six months, during which time Dean A. Beck & Assoc. will be working with your city staff to come up with a lot, if not all of the answers to questions that are of a concern to you. We - our obligation within that document is to basically pay for the cost of doing that research. In its present form, and we have absolutely no quarrel with this, Dean A. Beck & Associates will, make a contribution of $10,000 which will go to off-set the cost of your staff's time, we have agreed to pay for an economic study, which you choose the corporation - organization doing the study, you have complete control over it. We pay for that 100%, so that when it comes to you again that you are completely satisfied that a independent organization has researched it and is coming forward to you with the benefits, risk, whatever you want to call it, as it relates to the project. In addition to that we've agreed to pay for an EIR, the Environmental Impact Report, to the degree that it needs to be done on this particular project, So we would hope and even though this is not the issue tonight, we would hope that when we come before you next week that you will look at the document and add under the following basis - one is - that it is a document that over a six month period of time will provide not only you .but us with answers to questions as to the feas.ibility economiciil,!y for both of us as it relates to this project. That, secondly I that yOU give us the opportunity to do additional study and research, so we can refine and define the site plan, the architectural concepts, that HANNAH LOJESKI BEC KNER LOJESKI BECKNER LOJESKI BECKNER LOJESKI I BECKNER 4. whole ball of wax that is the package. That's what the ERN is all about. So I'm going to stop talkinq because I really would like for you to have the opportunity to ask me any questions that you have about anything that you want to talk about. Councilman Lojeski. No doubt in the last few months you've been followinq the newspaper or.... I'm a subscriber. Great... and the various concerns both pro and con towards your concept, conceptual development. After that occlJrr,ed we' got this particular rendering at City Hall. First of all - can you orient me with what I'm looking at here as to where I'm looking a~,~.thii5it~ation,gn.the bottom here. This is the Target facility here, and I might add that it's been especially designed to fit the site. Normally the Target Store would be deeper and not quite as lonq, but because of the configuration of the site they have rearranged their storage area. This right here is - this right here - so this view would be - if you were standing approximately here, now I'm not saying to scale because I can't tell you at what point it would look that big or that small. But the perspective is approximately here on Huntington Drive. The little brown thing down at the end, that's the Derby Restaurant? That is the existing Derby Restaurant, yessir. Ok - any comments on,some of those concerns, they were also mentioned through the campaigning which carried on for a qood three months, about, you know - is Target the proper anchor type of store that we want in the community, Can you address that situation at all? And the attractiveness of that type of store to bring in other types of stores around it or other types of businesses. Well a lot of the answers - a lot of the answers, that come forth to that kind of a question are admittedly subjective. Its like - is that a nice 5. 100kin9 store or not. I happen to think it is, somebody else mioht not think it is, I don't know. I would say this that one of the reasons why I pointed out earlier in my opening remarks about being a developer and not necessarily a Target developer is that we did look at the area site specific to determine what opportunities might be available. We came to the conclusion that because of your mall, because of the criteria of other types of users that Target made the most sense for the site. We believe, having known them for quite some time, that they will be a very fine corporate citizen. Equally important is the fact that they do tremendous volumes and fortunately the City's Sales Tax Revenues are icated on volume as opposed to profit. I would point out that we do have numbers if you would be interested but in your Blue Book the Target anticipated sales for the first year are approximately $15,000,000. On 100,000 sq. foot store thats a $150 a foot. In 1952 - I mean 1982, and I'm sure your staff could authenticate this through your tax records, but no store, no major department store in the Santa Anita Fashion Park, nor the May Company free-standing store did that kind of volume. So consequently if you want to look at it from one of many angles - financial, the opportunity of the City getting Sales Tax Revenues is extremely high. In the Target store we felt that they were the user that would fit on this site, we feel that because of the volume of people they bring and because it is Arcadia, and maybe even more so because of Arcadia, that we would be success- ful in bringing fine tenants to that approximately 75,000 feet of insulary retail. During the ERN, assuming it is approved, we plan to go into a pre-leasing program, once we know that we're at least in the tube so to speak with the City. Then we can legitimately' go out and start a pre- leasing program so that we stores. in our angular1y/ If there , will be able speak to the specific tenants I were what we consider to be a better user, site, the stores that are already represented considering the size of ,the LOJESKI LOJESKI BECKNER HANNAH LOJESKI HANNAH YOUNG lIII"CK'" 6. '. in Arcadia, the cost of the land, the volume potential and the sales taxes, we as a developer would owe it to ourselves, let alone the City, to try to bring that tenant into that development. So, to a degree, until the Katz Hollis report is done, you kind of have to hopefully say that if we could have done better? and I don't know exactly what better is, but if there was something else that made more sense taking all the factors in we would have bought it. That becomes as subjective as the Absolutely I think this is pointed out is the Target - there's nothing cast in concrete about that - some people might like ecology we hope that your professional staff would work with Target as it related to the architectural concept but, well I'm not saying that that has to be it. I'm simply saying that what we tried to therg___an portray/was/arch,tectura-l theme-that was compatible with the surrounding, the theme of the - say the hotel that we talked about previously and I understood was desirable, that that would be subject to change as the architectural review process. Where are we on the Katz Hollis Coren? As soon as you approve the ERN then your City staff enters into a contract with Katz Hollis which triggers their work. And I want to reiterate that that is a report that we pay for: Other questions? Thank you very much. Council Member Young. I have a question in that I guess that I need some background information.' I know your conversing with the City, your conversing with Datsun, at what point have you conversed with Target, or with Dayton-Hudson? Well after we found what we thought made sense as a site and then determined the availability of the Datsun dealership, and then looked to see what YOUNG BECKNER YOUNG BECKNER YOUNG BECKNER YOUNG BECKNER YOUNG BECKNER 7. '. opportunities there would be, and came to the conclusion knowing that Target was interested in the market area, we then went to Target, and at the meeting on January the 3rd there was a Target representative here that made a presentation. Ok. Target has said to us, and I believe they said that night to the City, that this is where they would like to be, they want to work with us and the City to make that happen. And so until you folks tell us otherwise we are both committed to the site. Alright, I have a couple of other somewhat detailed questions, but they can be concerns to me. Do they plan to put in an automotive section - like tires and auto repairs? They did like many department stores would plan to have what's called a TBA, which is a Tire, Battery and Accessory, and that would be to the rear of the building. They do sell, as you probably know, just like Sears A and other stores do, they do sell automobile accessories, now what I mean by that is that they - its like tires, batteries, wax that kind of thing. Do they do the associated services that go along with that, like installing tires, installing batteries so they need garage space? Yes Maam, they would have a TBA area that would be in this area, which is basically shielded from the rest of the center, as the garden shop, the 13,000 foot garden area which actually provides a form of landscaping with access directly off of Second Avenue. Alright, then that leads to my next question - where are their loading docks, or unloading docks? Well their loading dock and TBA facilities are"all" in this area so they have truck access to it. City, "h",ti, of th, ,to"9' "",. th, TBlIII So it.... We will be providing to the YOUNG BECKNER LO,JESKI BECKNER I YOUNG 8. facilities, the truck loading dock etc. My experience in viewing this type of store has been that the loading dock areas, the truck ingress and egress and the necessary space for that is considerable and also not very sightly, and I was concerned with having it at that corner which is where I figured it was. Well that - let me say this - I will not try and argue about the fact that a TBA if not handled properly is unattractive. You see a lot of shopping centers, in fact I think there~s one up here where the Tire-Battery facil- ity sits right out in the parking lot and that is probably the least attractive way of doing it, simply because you cannot screen it with shrubbery and you cannot do it with walls that - you know - protect that visability. Again this is an architectural concept, they certainly do have that kind of a facility, I know we're involved with them - say in Cypress where that there is going to be considerable landscaping and the wall which acts as a visible barrier and sound barrier is there - so I mean it can be handled, and it can be handled tastefully. But it certainly is a part of their merchandizing, just like Penney's and Sears, Broadway, and May also have that kind of a facility. Trend seems to be:that they",close them"up though. Well, what's happening is that there's only two, that Sears is the one that is most active in that business because they do very well with them. ~ont- gomery Ward's does well with them, but the others have not been able to do it - I have no idea why. So its kind of the - a segment of the business that has tended to gravitate one way or the other, its just Penney's has tended to get out of some lines because they couldn't compete with other department stores. Yes, but in the loading dock area and all I've seen - you know - empty cases, smashing cartons, all kinds of unsightly things which if they're using that same entrance for the automotive. BECKNER YOUNG BECKNER YOUNG BECKNER HANNAH YOUNG HANNAH GILB BECKNER 9. No, it wouldn't be the same entrance, and again you'd have to be satisfied with the schematic, I'm just simply saying it's in that area, but all department stores do have loading docks. All of them have trash compactors and so the questions becomes, in the architectural design to handle that properly and to put whatever reasonable, from both parties standpoint, restrictions are..bn.,thatfadlity. Didn't seem like there was enough room for all of that there. Well what you also are looking at there, of course, is the shadowed buildi The black in there was tryina to give it a three dimension effect similiar to the shops here, of course you go - you would not want them to load and unload from the front of the store, so it has to be done from the rear. So what you have here is a setback area and this gray in here is actually shadowing so there is a - where that truck dock might be right here I don't know, of course, with the reservoirs here which nothing's going to happen to - you don't have a visability there, now down here we would also anticipate to load and unload merchandize to the retailers from the back. . What's'the scale of that? Now - one inch equals 50 feet. You have a question? ~o, that's fine. Councilman Gilb. According to the map, which I'm now looking at, it's hard for me to discuss this cause I've had so much stuff that says confidential and don't tell anybody and I don't know which ones are which ones anymore, so if I say anything that's going to upset anybody its because I've got the wrona piece of paper out. This is the hotel that's here now? Correct? And I propert the this is the Bono property is this correct? And this is the Kiewit (Answered yes to the first two questions and no to the question of GILB BECKNER GILB BECKNER GILB BECKNER GILB BEC KNER GILB BECKNER GILB BECKNER IGILB BECKNER 10. Kiewet property) No-let me kind of give you, -,- I can kind of point that out to you. Right now Santa Clara comes right straight across here and so the Bong property Clara. graduated on'bdth sides.of Santa This - what I'm tryin9.,to establ ish - this is the back wall of the parking lot - is that correct? Thats the back - thats the north wall area of the hotel. Of the hotel - Ok. Thats. . . . . . . . And if we do this we will never be able to increase the parking or the hotel a9ain, is that correct? In other words the hotel will never be able to expand and we won't be able to increase the parkin9 at the hotel which is in a, definitely standing right now. Anyway, what I'm trying to establish is this building sits way back in much further than I thought it was and this is all parking and this is the wall next to the hotel, so does - what happens - where's the Datsun Agency now? Where does it sit? Ok... what.. This is approximately - this is Third Street right here. The Derby has their parkin9 lot here. Yes. And then there's the Henderson property and then you have the Datsun, and the Datsun forms this kind of a..... Ok - then this property includes the property that we used to have leased to Datsun in the back where he parked the cars? Yes. That includes that? Yes. So all the property that Datsun owned, leased, rented, everything is in this project now? Yes. GILB YOUNG GILB YOUNG BECKNER GILB BECKNER GILB BECKNER KIN~AHAN GILB PELLEGRINO GILB. BECKNER GILB BECKNER GILB BECKNER GILB BECKNER Ok - that's what I wanted to know. But this concerns me, it may not - I don't know maybe it's not a concern of anybody else - but with a parking problem here I don't, and with - like Mrs. Young said - with the unloading back here, you're 90ing to be unloadin~ right behind the hotel. Of course the hotel unloads too back there, you know. They're going to have to - I guess they -how do they get into their hotel? How do they get into their hotel now? In the back. Well is this going to be a street in here? No, they would have - they've a driveway...... They have access between the property line and the building. To get into their own kitchens and whatever? Yes. Right in this area - you're talking about? It's in the north area.....yes, by the pool.... pardon me. South It's in their pool, they .. .by the pool, sir, and the kitchen. Right in here. Mr. Mayor. Well, I didn't realize the magnitute of this thing. Ok, actually it's everything - it's approximately 14 acres, it's...... What else is over here in buildings that come down? Well, the Datsun dealership would come down...... Yes, in other words it's your idea to tear the buildings down? That is correct. Ok - what's Henderson, he owns a Tha t's a repa i r. . . . Santa Anita Auto Body. 11. I BECKNER GILB BECKNER GILB BECKNER GILB GILB KINNAHAN - GIlB KINNAHAN I 12. " (Several talking at once) The only thing besides the structure is you've got the Kiewet BUilding that sits right in here. Yes. And then you've got the Derby which would not be touched. They'd leave that? That's correct. That has been - we've talked to the owners and they have indicated interest in being a part of the project and as we understood from day one that was an important historical thing from the City, and that the City would like to see it stays. So we have assumed that that would be something you would want and they would like to stay, and we would like to have them. price Ok, then if we sell this at a purchase/that they want to pay, that means they get the whole thing for that amount of money per foot, or per acre, or whatever we're selling it as, is that correct? Is it - does it - property vary at all? Or is it just one average for the whole'thing? Well what we're looking for...... Or is that closed session. No sir, its the concept right now and this would depend upon the Katz Hollis Coren financial analysis. -- What is'~his-- I don't know 'what 'Katz' Hollts is ~ who's that - what's that? a They,are/financial adivsory firm that would retained, as Russ mentioned, to be paid for by the developer. The Agency would be the one to contract with them for a financial analysis ,of the project. They would take the data that is cranked out by Target and by Beck, relate it to the data that we have. I~e would give it to them and they would analyse what the return on the investment would be for the Agency and for the City, and they would do it from a short term and a long term basis. So when you get to the analysis of what we would pay for the property and what they would BECKNER HANNAH GILB HANNAH BECKNER HANNAH GILB PELLEGRINO BECKNER PELLEGRINO GILB BECKNER BECKNER 13. " pay for the property - that's what Katz Hollis helps to tell us. That's when we find out'whether or not it's going to go or not. And they pay for that. They pay for the study? Yes. That's correct. Are you finished Councilman? Yes, I was reading the comments on the proposed development project and... Mr. Gilb could I sort of join you on that feeling? I have a feeling for the parking like Mr. Gilb has also, and I was wondering if it would offen you or if you have it in your plans to eliminate this wall right here_to" have a joint venture parking across the whole front Charles thats ...... Well let me be the third person to say that I'm also concerned about the parking, because it appears to me that they're terribly under parked. Well who isn't? He know that. The hotel? ......... terribly. Yes. And consequently it would be very easy for them to want, at least to use our parking. I call it ours because I'm assuminq we own the land. True. Now, what we have tried to do is - that there is a~directcrel~tionship between the number of cars we have-for our customers to park on and amount of square footage that we can build, which goes directly to the issue of how much we can pay for the land etcetera. In many respects you you control that because you have the right for variances etcetera as far as parking is concerned. I would tell you this that Target has a very , that they need to have five cars for each 1 ,000 square feet of sales area. So consequently we will have - we, Target and probably the Derby - will have cross easement so that there is no I PELLEGRINO BECKNER PELLEGRINO BECKNER GILB BECKNER PELLEGRINO BECKNER PELLEGRINO GILB I 14. distinguishing between whose parking is whose. If there is a way we to would not object/talkino about the hotel, but I tell you quite frankly that it would hurt, it would because what you're talkin~ about is the ability to sell merchandize with people coming through the project. Up till now I'm sure that you're not as naive to think that this hotel will not help some of this retail area. And vice-versa. And vice-versa - that's correct. Eliminatin~ this wall would make an easier flow to help the parking problem - you may not have a parking problem here - we don't know that yet, right? Or do you know that? I don't know the On the day they had sales you wouldn't be able to ~et in the hotel. (Someone else also talking at the same time) I do know - I do only know two things and that is: One - is that you have codes in the City that require us to supply so much parking for our retail. We'd like to have a happy marriage with you, and what I'm saying is this might be abrasive to what we consider a nice parking district for both the whole project. Certainly not ruling it out - we would be payin~ quite a bit for the land and it's possible that somehow we could work together in that regard. I don't know. Yes, that was my main thrust when Mr. Gilb brought it up - I sort of wanted to jump on the wagon. I have one other question - just what Don was saying that- those stores that go along the side, Ok - now we don't know what they're going to be, obviously if you put a beauty shop in there it may not take as much space available as if you put, like they had at the tower - Town Center Building - when they put in an area where people come in and paid their insurance for even Sears Roebuck and 10,000 people came a day to pay. And you couldn't;find GILB BECKNER GILB BECKNER HANNAH LOJESKI BECKNER HANNAH LOJESKI 15. a place to park, I mean if you put something in like that we would have a mass traffic jam in there. I mean the stores in there are going to have to be compatible with the other store because of the parking problem. Obviously Derby is 90in~ to have to use that space because they haven't got any place else to park the cars, they can't put them on the street. But I'm really concerned about the hotel parking - it is bad now - may settle down - I mean when everybody gets through getting all their free breakfast - I mean they-won't get so much of a crowd over there, you know. And free drinks. Well - free drinks. Well - we're equally concerned because any retailer has to be able to have parking for their customers. That's true, without the parking you don't have a store. And we need to satisfy the retailers, also we need to satisfy you in what your codes require for us to provide in the way of parking. Councilman Lojeski - go ahead. What I was trying to say is we'd like to make that development look like all one development instead of having walls around each individual place and make them all complement each other. Somehow I think we can reach it if you know our intent. I agree it would be very nice......Well, I think that making it appear to people as a total development is always preferable and we will be happy to work with the staff to try and come up with a way that makes sense from everybody's standpoint, we have no objections to it in concept. Than k vou. Denn is. Two statements the, you know - the compatibility of parkin9 from the hotel to the retail store or whatever you have over there. This is always a great concept to say - well, gosh wouldn't it be nice you know to eliminatl this wall, eliminate this wall everybody is going to have community parkin it never quite works that way. Every major development that's occurred in BECKNER YOUNG BECKNER YOUNG BECKNER PELLEGRINO I BECKNER LOJESKI BECKNER 16. '. this town, Town Center Building is a good example - big wall around the building. Parking Commission sat there and said"Dr. Chinn is gOing to build his medical building, boy we'd like 'to have that medical building just kind of blend in with,the parking district's lot there, wouldn't that be nice?" .Well now there's teeth and arms and everything else that come down there, you know so, to think that concept is going to happen unless it's somehow somebody can tell me how that works and we can guarantee that, again, I'd like to see it happen, but other than giving it lip service I think - you know - we should look at it from another angle. Your auto- motive center which is attached to this thing, hypothetically it would be at the north end up there. Is this all under the auspices of Target directly, in other words not like the May Company, where all of a sudden they may lease out that piece or something like that, because we've got a MaY Company store right now that their automotive center went out of business and they ended up with this little bastardized piece of property that you can't do anything with. No', .tlii s larget owns and operates a 11 the departments in that Thought - in putting tires on a car there's an electric thing that handles the lugs that makes a noise, what does that do to the hotel? Well, I've never done it so I don't know what - exactly what you're talking about - but - you mean the key to the lift - is that what you're talking about? No, the power wrench. I can't answer that question..... What time does the store open Bruno what time does the store open? Beg your pardon., His name is Russ. The store would traditionally - the store itself would traditionallyr-open YOUNG BECKNER YOUNG BECKNER YOUNG GILB BECKNER GILB HANNAH LOJESKI 17. " open at ten o'clock, you know, The TBA would generally open somewhat earlier for people who wanted to leave their vehicle there for tires or whatever. Now you're asking me a....... We're at details I realize, but..... But legitmate concerns I don't question that.. Yes, because there's another side to that story these things could go on the other side. I'm sorry I don't..... On the east side of the building. Mr. ~~yor we put a Dyna-tuner or something or other down on the corner of Santa Anita and Las Tunas, we had 50 people in here that live in houses a block and a block and a half away complaining about the noise of that joint. They were a block to a block and a half away and all they do down there is tune engines, and I can just hear this would do in the morning if people - I mean if they start too early and those rivets come on'off those tires - you know - this is going to be a noise factor - I don't know how it would travel, it might be able to be done inside the building, but the noise would travel pretty good. It is an enclosed facility, I mean, it's not an open facility. No, but I don't know of a closed facility yet that doesn't but take the cars in, they 1 eave thema11 out in the street and get them done and say, "we 11 1'11 run ri ght out and change that for you', I'll be ri ght back" - you know - Yes, I understand what you're saying, but this could be a problem. Dennis. Another concern I've got is, I don't know if you've been up to the hotel, but its the old thought, you know, if you're having friends in the hotel . where do you have them stay in the hotel to get the best view? Do you I have them facing north, south, east, or west. And that :pocw north'vi:ew BECKNER LOJESKI BECKNER LO.JESKI BECKNER LOJESKI I BECKNER 18. right now, you look down on to a real mess. What is the concern or have you addressed the concern, or thought of the concern about what happens when you look down on that particular site? In other words, I can invision you know - Slrease racks, and oil, all that sort of thing. As I said, it is all enclosed, there is no - none of the facility - none of the work is done outside the facility. So you're not looking down on a grease rack or something else, any mechanical equipment will be inside the buildinSl, not outside the building. You're going to be looking down and regardless of what we do, they're going to be looking down on the water towers, and that's not terribly scenic. And the garden center should be nice, we're going to landscape that area - around it. The roof top will be a roof top, 'in terms of trying to do a perspective I know I am not - I've never done one. I guess I just throw that out as a concern. Yes, I understand. You know - because I've heard it - already I've talked to people that are in that north part of the building and you know, it's just horrendous, boy you look down on that mess - its terrible - its a joke. Well, as I say I - you have you're preliminary discussions with your staff, I know that the people seem to be - people I have talked to, not only George and Pete and Chet and Bill, the rest of them seem to be very aware of things to look for. I think that they will undoubtly come up with and that we'll have to try and find reasonable solutions for those problems, but that will be a part of the process with both answering those questions. . . Wi'll there be another street to the far north inbetween the water towers and that building? Right behind them. Actually that would not be a through street the - for all intents and purposes HANNAH BECKNER HANNAH GILB BECKNER GILB BECKNER GILB 19. Santa Clara would dead-end as a public street at the bridge over the wash, but would not be blocked, you would be able to come in there as a pOint of egress into the shopping facility, and would be able to come down into either the Target Store or the shops. Any other questions? Any questions of Mr. Kinnahan? I do want to make one final statement about the sHe plan and that is that what you're looking at appeared from our architects vantage pOint to maximize the site which means justification for dollars spent to us, means revenue from sales taxes to you. there's nothin~ cast in stone about that budget. We felt that because of the configuration of the site that that would be at least one way of situating the buildinrs. So this is preliminary - again, part of the ERN process of working with the staff, because you have to be satisfied eventually with the site plan, of all the issues that you have raised tonight. And we will work with:the staff to try and solve all the problems that can be solved. If there are no other questions and you have not please. Did you say that the, what is the average annual sales of Target, you mentioned $15,000,000, you thought that was pretty terrific. I don't think that's so hot. I said first year sales. Ok, and I know it's better than the ones in the mall but we're not comparing it to the ones in the mall. Well, I - it might be adventurous,but with the exception of a couple of stores it is above the per square foot sales of any, what you would call, department store, Robinson's, Broadway, Buffums, etcetera in the whole Los Angeles area. I know that's kind of hard to believe, but it is the case now..... I read Women's Wear'Daily pretty regular, they have all the dollar I BECKNER YOUNG GILB GILB BECKNER GILB BECKNER GILB I BECKNER GILB 20. " sales in there an~ I'm going home and look that up toni~ht. We have complete, in fact John have you got it..... Yes, I've got it right here. How does it compare to Fedco or K-Mart? Oh well, Fedco is in a class by themselves. They're at $75,000,000 over in that store over there. Its because of it's I think it's because of its Gemco averages what - $25,000,000? In the Blue Book that you were given, there were the sales based on the Target research - the market research determining that this was that area in which they wanted 'to be. We're talking about - it's in the sales projections - they projected, and I feel these are conservative - they projected first year - first full year of-operation - these were projected in 1983 dollars even though the center would not open until probably early 86' '- about $15,000,000 increasing in the fifth year to $26,000,000. And those are in constant dollar, constant 1983 dollars. So that is from-$l50 to $260 and just for interest - the average of all stores in the Southern California - the Broadway does $94.26, Bullocks $106.14 - this is per square foot, this is al I in Southern Canf6rnia stores, Bullocks Wilshire $133.68, May Company $96.96, Robinsons $133.45, and Buffums $88.81. Now they are profitable because of their mark-up', Target is profitable primarily-because of their volume. What does Gemco do, do you know? I really don't know. Well, isn't that a store that's in the - what we're talking about in Target? I've never been in a Target store ... I'm sure that we can find...... I've never been in a Target store - I'm ta lki ng about- you know - se" i ng.. .. . BECKNER GILE BECKNER YOUNG BECKNER HANNAH PELLEGRINO BECKNER 21. " Well, they would do more volume, I'm reasonably certain because they are a successful company, a good company, they would do more volume than traditional department stores. Yes. Target does, if not the highest, at least one of the highest volumes in the country for a store, at least the size. We have provided to the , staff Dayton Hudsons Annual Report which gives a' lot of the information that you're talking about nationwide, and a break-down, and various components of their sales. So that information is available. Don't you have to compare it to a store of like kind? I mean Target isn' 1 i ke Bull ocks. No, what I'was trying to say is that we've had - kind of gotten this kind of warped a little bit. When we looked at the availability of who else might there be, we came to the conclusion that there wasn't. As the consideration for the subject is the revenues to be generated, and that's the only point. I' am not sayinq that 11: Neiman-f1arcus and a Target as an example should be compared. What I am saying, however, is that in addition to being fine merchants, good corporate citizens, they will produce a tremendous amount of tax revenues to the City. And that's the only area in which sales volume is of any real importance. Mayor pro tern. When would you - what we're trying to pullout of you I guess is - what would you compare your store to - what other store that we're familiar with in this area? Well they are of the general description of your Gemco, Fedco, that type now it - that is kind of misleading - in that, for instance,Gemco sells groceries, Target does not. That's a difference. Target has a higher I percentage of their total merchandises in soft lines, that would be your clothing - tho~e types of items and some of the other. So it's very difficult to pinpoint, really....... PELLEGRINO BECKNER LOJESKI BECKNER LOJESKI GILB BECKNER LOJESKI BECKNER I 22, How. would you compare Mervyns to Target? Well, they're sister companies. I would say that there is a great deal of .solidarity - one of the primary difference is that Mervyns sells no hard lines. Mervyns sells only soft lines - dresses and ready to wear and that type of thing. Target sells hard lines and soft lines. Where is the closest Target store that I could 00 visit that would be comparable to what we're looking at here? You'll probably have to go to Minneapolis or Dallas or Houston or....... Some place closer...... We're on a limited budget in this town. As I'm sure you're aware because of the tremendous cost, you're advertising in the greater Los Angeles area, distribution and everything, for a merchant, to come in, a large merchant to come in, they have to come into a multiple location so they can spread that cost out. It does not make any sense in a City such as the metropolitan Los Angeles area, to come in and hope to find 15, 20, 30 opportunities - being a developer I can tell you there aren't that many out there and I - so what they did was that they came in and they leased the approximately 30 of the Fedmart stores in San Diego, Los Angeles. They are not at all representative of a Target store because they took something that was, even each of the Fedmart stores weren't alike, and so they had to work within - you know - the four walls of what they had. The first store to open, new store,will .open, I believe the first one on line will be in Puente Hills, down at the mall. When is that going to open? That will probably be - that's the part - I'm going to guess now - I can find out for you - I'm going to say - I think that's scheduled for spring of 85' - probably April to July of 85'. There are several that will be opening between spring of 85' and spring of 86' - new stores that will be coming on line that will be representative, but to really get the feel . of what Target is, unfortunately you can't.do it in Los Angeles right now, GILB- BECKNER GILB BECKNER HANNAH 14ATTS " HANNAH BECKNER HANNAH LOJESKI HANNAH HATTS 23. you will be able to do it. Did you say - excuse me - did you say they were going in the mall of Puente Hills? No, they're going across.... Well, they haven't even started the building yet, have they? Well, they're just getting ready to go, it's a Mervyns, Target and small" shops. It's on the old Montgomery Ward property, what was" going to be a Montgomery Ward down there. Ok,"any other questions? Ok - as I understand it we'll be bringing back an ERN next Tuesday ni~ht to be voted on.......... any additional questio of Mr. Beckner? That's correct (in answer to ERN to be voted on....) If not we thank you very much for your presentation. I appreciate the opportunity to visit with you tonight, so we'll see you next Tuesday evening. Thank you, Alripht. Thank you, Russ. George - we have anything more for the Council? Not for the City Council, for ARA we do. I 24. " STUDY SESSION APRIL 24, 1984 CIVIC CENTER PROJECT REVIEW I HANNAH CITY ClK HANNAH WATTS 25. City Council and convene the Redevelopment Agency. Madame City Clerk may we have a roll call v6te please. Gilb-yes, here, lojeski-here, Pellegrino-Present,' Youn9ohere,. and Hann~h- here. Ok - George. Ok - Mr. Mayor, Members of the City Council, we have provided the Council with the latest information on the - so-called Civic Center project - we have also provided the two newest council members with information that had been provided to the Council several months ago. To summarize that information, last ,June the City Council came to a consensus concerning this project that included the following things: One - that the new City Hall complex, probably a high-rise configuration. A new Police facility. It was not clear whether the Council wished to include a Senior Citizen facility or possibly a.multi-purpose recreation facility that would include a Senior Citizen facility. As you could see from the recommendation in our report that we provided you, if the Council wishes to proceed that way we would recommend a multi-purpose facility rather than one solely for Senior Citizens. The Council also reached a consensus that they not include a soccer field in the development area, that the existing Council Chamber building would be retained, that all other - and that all other uses that were outlined in the May 1983 report were rejected. Since then we have solicited 20 architectural consulting firms for an RFQ, which is a Request for Qualifications, basically this is a step precedent to an RFP, a Request for Proposal. That is, we want to go to 20 of the top firms in the area, have them submit only the quali- fications to this subject and then weed that down to two or three firms that we could recommend to the Counci1 to go for a Request for proposal'l that is, we would then from those two or three firms get specific proposal back for the specific work involved. Before we do that we need additional HANNAH GILB HANNAH SHUSTER HANNAH GILB HANNAH I GILB SHUSTER 26. ", and more specific information from the Council Defore we can ask for a Request for Proposal. We hope to have the RFQ's in hand by the end of the month and a recommendation before the Council next month, the RFP. Tonight we would like to discuss further the project with the Council to see if the previous Councjl consensus still stands, if you want to make any changes or additions to the basic concept, and particularly with respect to the Senior C'itizen or multi-purpose recreation facility. Will you start us off Councilman Gilb? How do we pay for this? We have allocated approximately $3,000,000.00 million and a half last year... from Capital... and we have..., We - if the Council appropriate~ a million and a half that's in this years budget and I think tonight Mr. Watts is going to also present the a budgets, proposed' budget-for next year, that would be in the Capital Outlay Fund and the Council, if they so wish, could also appropriate another million and a half - that would give you three million to with work within our limitations also, you know, because we have some limitations - Prop 4 limitation that was passed in 1979 and that would work within the limitations. Might add that by the time that this building would commence the City- would have sufficient funds to pay for the entire building. In 1985, this is supposedly when we would get something in the ground. What happens 'to the City if the Jarvis Amendment goes through and - how would that affect the City, that all the taxes passed will be rescinded? We haven't passed any taxes,to my knowledge,in the last two year period that would be rescinded. That's not necessarily so. There could be some ramifications if the Jarvis - if the new Jarvis Bill passes in November. Some of the money that we have been getting in the HANNAH SHUSTER GILB SHUSTER GILB SHUSTER GILB SHUSTER GILB SHUSTER GILB SHUSTER HANNAH PELLEGRINO 27. past, on property taxes for example because - it's kind of hazy - they're qoing back and adjustinq - under Prop 13 - going back to 1975-76 - so we could loose some property tax revenue out of the General Fund cause all the Property Tax goes to the General Fund. But that's not a new tax~ That's not a new tax. The only other item that could be of a questionable nature may be that the money that goes into the Sewer Replacement Fund, right now there's some money that goes in there, that's that 50 cents per dwellinq per residential - two dollars for all others. And part of that money goes back in the General Fund to pay for sewer maintenance next year to the tune of about $90. Hhat about the Util ity Tax? No. It would not affect the Utility Tax? NO,because-see the Utility Tax - you start at the 5% way prior to 1978" when Prop 13.... Way prior to - a couple of days - Ok.. No..... . That was..... we had a meeting at 6 o'clock on a Friday night. .... No - that was - remember there was an increase of 5 to 7.... Ok_but that will not be affected. That was an increase from 5 to 7, in'1978 they increased it from 5 to 7 and then subsequently a short time later they reduced it back to 5%. But your 5% has been in effect a long-time prior to Prop 13 announced in June of 1978. Thank"you. Mr. Shuster, while you're up - we set a million and a half aside,"at that I time we called it something else because of the terminology, we didn't have all stuff there, so we earmarked it for the SHUSTER PELLEGRINO SHUSTER HANNAH SHUSTER HANNAH SHUSTER HANNAH SHUSTER I HANNAH SHUSTER 28. improvement of City Property instead of Civic Center. Right. So that - ok, also with this new Tucker bill from the Race Track, how much do you see that we'll be getting from the Race Track this year? Well we're estimating approximately $2,000,000, but if you take out, you know, a million and a half you've got some left, but then you also have to payout of that also the Traffic Enforcement, the Police Traff~c Enforce- ment. All immaterial-we have approximately a million and a half from the meet just completed and we got about $400,000 from the Oak Tree, that's about $1,900,000 and the total cost of the Police was about $350,000, if I understood it correctly. Well it comes out to - yes, about $350..., So we're going to end up with at least a million and a half in revenues from the Race Track that can be allocated to a Capital Improvement.' Well yes - there is, but I'm saying I think the Council would want to see after, let's say, the architects and engineers come up with a project, what the cost is going to be. Because on a cash flow basis, if you want to pay for it, the Tucker bill money, if that's tonight there will 'be passed out in the 5 year budget - and in that Capital Outlay Fund it will show a 5 year projection of that Fund which is the Capital Outlay Fund which if the Tucker bill money goes in, and.you will be able to see it there - you know - within 5 years what kind of cash balance you will have. I'd like to ask you what happened to the $700,000 we got 5ack from the Senior Citizen? Didn't that go back in Capital Outlay? Yes, that's..... in there. That's already in there, so if we allocate a million and a half this year we would have $3,700,000. Well I have to,.... WATTS HANNAH WATTS HANNAH PELLEGRINO WATTS PELLEGRINO YOUNG WATTS YOUNG PELLEGRINO We'd bUlll sure - I th The discussion tonight about the actual dollars and where we're Qoing to get the money is very premature. We haven't decided to build it yet so..... Well the main thing about - well the next ste~ - the most important next step in terms of gettin9 a consultant is to find out exactly what the costs will be for the various type of facilities that you want. At that point then we'd look and see what monies are available. We haven't, really, the fog9iest idea of what these facilities will cost, because, again, we're talking about a pOSSibility of a multi-purpose recreation facility, a city hall, I forgot to mention the auditorium, a community auditorium which is part of that. We could be talking 10 - 12 - 15 - 20 million dollars depending on what the Council ends up finally doing. Obviously if we get into figures that high, pay as you go isn't 90in9 to cut it, a bond issue would be necessary - of some kind. But we don't know, we don't have that kind of expertise on the staff to be able to tell you - we can 9ive you some wild guesses, but we need - first of all for you to tell us the exact facilities that you would like to see the consultant put a figure on, and then we'll qo out and recommend to you the best consultant we can find to give you those fi qures. . . . . Do you think it's only - . go ahead... Why did staff recommend not to touch the Soccer Field? We didn't-that was the Council's decision. It was? Why? I don't recall quite frankly, maybe some of the Councilmen are here. Well, it's tied up partly in the way it was funded, isn't it? Well we'd have to replace the money that we received by Grant. the field somewhere else if we eliminated this one, that's for 29. 30. ,.' WATTS GILB HANNAH GILB I'm just saying. yes..... that's partly. Mr. Mayor, Yes. I think this discussion is germane to the subject, if the staff is going to spend a lot of time and we're going out and hire a consultant, we're going to build a building that you and I know is going to cost $15,000,000 - I mean there-$10,000,000 or something. And if it's the philosophy of part of the Council that the citizens should vote on this or at least let them know ho~ it's to be funded - I just happen to believe - I don't think the staff should spend all their time going all through this unless we've all decided we're going to go ahead with this thing. This is not going to be a small project, to even develop,what we want in it. Personally I can't conceive of it costing any 10-15 million 'dollars myself, and if it did I certainly wouldn't be in favor of it. I think that we should find out - do we want ~o - this building is - the Police building is 28 years old - the other building is 34 years old. Facilities need - if we don't build a new facility we have to upgrade the existing facilities, no question in my mind, I don't think they're efficiently operated, I think we should discuss, No.1 - do we want to spend the money to update our existing facility. Do we want to build a new building - if we want to build a new building, what do we want in it? And if we decide that that's what we want to do, do we want a four story building that includes an auditorium or do we want an eight story building that might possibly include four stories of offices to help offset the cost of maintaining the building. I can't conceive of anything costing some $15,000,000, I'm not suggesting we build a Taj-Mahal for the City. I think it's a good idea to discuss it - possibility of getting some architect to give us some idea of what we should put here and a ball park guess as to what 1 HANNAH I GILB HANNAH GILB HANNAH GILB HANNAH GILB WATTS PELLEGRINO YOUNG GILB YOUNG 31. it would cost. And from there we'll- if we have the money in our pocket- book we'll go ahead and if not we'll forget about the project. Well four years ago we discussed an auditorium and they wanted $6,000,000 to build the auditorium on property over there that the school district owns. And it seems to me that we need a new Police building, and tearing one down and puttinq another ~ne up is a lot different than building an eight story building because you need a Police building. I don't know..,.. The existing Police building would remajn until such time as the new facility is build. Pardon me. I say - the existing Police building would remain until such time as the new building is built. We 11, not necessarily... And then we would - I assume that we would destroy the old building for parking purposes at that time. It's an assumption on my part, but I think we should have an expert come in and tell us. Well it's not inconceivaBle to tear the Police building down and put one there and use some other facility while it's being built - I mean it's not just cut and dried to say it'll go to another building until - that's a piece of property over there that's centrally located, that's going to be difficult to locate something else except parking over there. Certainly that could be one of the thinas that the consultant can look into and give us the recommendation on it. Well first I think George is looking for a consensus of 'do you think we should have a Police Department as one of the facilities we're going'to do? ' I Oh, yes. That's a number one. I think that heads the list. I PELLEGRINO LOJESKI tElLEORINO GILB HANNAH YOUNG HANNAH YOUNG HANNAH PELLEGRINO I HANNAH YOUNG 32. Second of all - do you think we need a City Hall? If we're going to build a new Police Department, do you think we're going to need a new City Hall while we're doing them?' You~ facilities here, in many respects, are older than Police facilities, and if the inefficiency, I'm not saying staff is inefficient, I'm saying the way City Hall is laid out today in' a tremendously inefficient manner, for somebody to go from one end of the building, down a flight of stairs and all the way to the other end of the other building. I go to a lot of City Hall's, like a lot of people, and I keep saying to myself, "wouldn't it be nice, you know, if Arcadia had this', from Duarte to Sierra Madre. And I would be in favor of a City Hall, and I think you would need the consensus of a majority of the - would be in favor of a City Hall - for them to look into it to see the feasibility of what it would cost us. I'm not in favor of a new City Hall. Mary. I'm not opposed to it. I feel if this is considered we ought to put as much under that roof as we can get there, and there I would go into the other activities also. Incorporate everything under one roof? The one thing I'm opposed to is office space for the public. We don't need it - it was just a thought possibly that it might help carry the cost of the building. The next issue I have here is ruled out anything, we discussed pros and cons of many things, but I don't think anything was ruled out. It says private use was rejected as they would compete with the private GILB PELLEGRINO YOUNG PELLEGRINO LO,JESKI YOUNG LOJESKI YOUNG LOJESKI 33. sector projects. This is my guess. I think another thin~ is - would this be a ,multi-purpose bUllding so that ~e could incorporate our senior citizens into some of the facility, some other activities, recreation facilities. I think we should look into it,... I would incorporate both of them. Include it into the project. .,. my opinion. I feel that we've tossed it around, you know, the senior center, communitl center, I don't care what you want to call it, it seems like every time a different location, other than one that's centrally located, always becomes rejected from either, one - the cost of the property, the cost of the, you know, purchasing the property, and 'then moving the facility there; or you get a tremendous opposition from the Senior Citizen Commission, or the senior citiiens in general saying, "no we'd like to stay centrally located within the community", you know, closer to the facility, I guess that's near the park and that sort of thing.... I don't think that if they knew they could have it they'd turn it down anyplace. Well Mary I only go back, you know, I only, and 'maybe I'm speaking out of turn, but I go back over, you know, lot more than just a couple of years of communications back and forth where the Commission, you 'know, adamantly stood on the grounds of "we either want it here or nowhere", you know, on a couple of sites. I think that's been true lately... And that's really too bad because that's exactly what happened, when I believe it was Dave and myself, or Don and myself or whatever, I guess it's immaterial, when we met with the School Board. Two members of the J I believ conclusi School Board and their staff, and George was at the meeting, and Mike was there and, you know,the School Board finally came to the I HANNAH PELLEGRINO I HANNAH 34. that, and they said, you know, "yes, we're not in a position, to say We want the auditorium here or we want an auditorium there, we're now having to take the posture of, we'll take it anyplace, we don't care where it is, and we'll consequently support it accordingly", you know. I think that's the situation that everything and everyone has to look at sooner or later, where either you're going to get something or you're going to get nothing, and is something better, you know, more feasible than nothing. If you would go into that type of a situation I would, I personally like to see a true community center, one that was a multi-purpose type of facility, it could be used and I think a logical location, a logical spot because you don't have to purchase the property is right on this location. Don. I'just want to voice my opinion that I only have six years on the Council, and I've been to a lot of City Hall's, and if you think Arcadia is a unique city - we do not have a facility that can hold a candle stick to a lot of cities. We do not have a City Hall - staff works with what they have and they do the best they can with what is provided for them, but they do not have the adequate room or the adequate services to give it. Whittier built a City Hall and you know, Charles is laughing and I laughed at it, but they have a grant called a CDBG - Community Development Building Grant - and they have a grant for Old American Aunt Grant. We don't know how long these grants will be available because of what - the cutbacks the government and Reagan are doing, but these other cities tackle every possible grant that they can,to afford to do what the h--- they're doing, and I think we'd be - it would be advantageous to us to decide what we have, what we'd like to have in the Cit~ and if we can afford i~ to do it, because 30 years from now the Council's going to say we were crazy anyhow and they're going to rebuild aoain, I personally would like to see a study done and then we'll consider the PELLEGRINO HANNAH PELLEGRINO 35. cost, if we can't afford it obviously we'll rebuild it. Yes, but each one'of us has something different that we think the City Hall should be, and we should include it so that we can do it as a multi- purpose building instead of a single prase..... one shot deal...... Want to start off with a recommendation Don? Well, I just named fou~ George. I'd like to see a recreation facility where we don't have to beg the school. I sponsor a lot of baseball teams, a lot of basketball teams almost every season. We have one season for I basketball that the whole City can get - night recreation - can get in- volved in and after that they have to wait a whole year because there's 10 games-they're over with and we have to go - now we have to go to the new YMCA which is on Mountain Avenue, and that's no big thing bu~ senior citizens - when they have a little meeting - or a get together, they meet on Santa Anita Road - why someone hasn't been killed on Santa Anita crossing that street, because they do not move 20 miles an hour across that street, is beyond me. I think we need somewhere where a gathering can be held. They say in the packet that we'll be in competition with the Ramada Inn, with the Granada Hotel, I don't think we're looking for competition, and if there is competition, well they'll have to sharpen their pencil, if there is competition. An auditorium - I have a problem with an auditorium cause we were faced with an auditorium where the school says "the n--- with you, we want the auditorium'~ and we said why build an auditorium if we have to keep funding it and paying for it for years because you can't serve alcohol' beverages in the auditorium if it's on the school property. So how are you 90in9 to have a fund raiser in the auditorium to help subsidize the thin9 to make it so we, therefore, it'd be out of pocket money forever to help subsidize the auditorium just to meet the lights. I don't know I the answer to an auditorium but if it is incorporated in this maybe some- how it would pencil out. The auditorium was the last on my agenda items 36. HANNAH GILB because of the severe needs we need in the Police department. I mean you 90 in there and look at the shower room - it's pathetic - you guys are........ we've got a sickening City...... Gilb. I would - let me talk to you a minute about the auditorium. When we had all these studies B or 10 years ago about the auditorium we were told by the School District that if it isn't on the City property - School property" they're not interested in it. They just told us that cold, they don't want to use it for class room everyday', they wanted it to be right next door. If it was across the street they'd have to put them in busses and take them across the street, they couldn't afford to do that. Maybe we've passed that time where we - it's not feasible to do that -we were talking about putting it on El Monte or over there on the wash and parking over there, that would be a separate building. I think that the Police Department is the No.1 project and I'm not sure that we wouldn't be better off to build a new Police Department and a new City Hall in different location - I mean I don't know the answer to that question. As far as the senior citizens are concerned, r1rs. Young knows more about that than I do, the senior citizens have to "have a place that they can get to easily and with 13 Dial-a-Rides around town I think we can all get them there pretty quick, now we've got plenty of those things running around but, maybe the auditorium would have to be developed into a building rather than trying to build it separately, cause I don't think you're ever - if you get one built separately you're going to have - somebody is going to have to take care of the thing. And if the School District doesn't want to maintain the facility and we have to put it on school property and maintain it with City funds - I'm not too sure how much we'd even get to use it, because the school would have it all the time, and that wouldn't be fair to the citizens. I I LOJESKI G I L Sf HANNAH YOUNG PELLEGRINO GILB PELLEGRINO YOUNG 37. <'J', ':\. ,,~ They 'can't even paint their buildings so that's not gOing,-/you'dori't maintain something.... I KpOW.... Mary. I'm all for all of these things basically.but I'm also very realistic and when it comes to an auditorium I feel that an auditorium with a slanted floor ,is - stands empty most of the time. If you can somehow have this multi-purpose with sliding walls, have a stage that is equipped but also beable to open up this multi-purpose room - granted you're Sittil on stacked chairs or folding chairs but you could have the size that is usable for many things, you can have the stage that is usable, sure it's not like LaJMirada's auditorium but they're out seeking commercial theatrical things to make it pay~ and I don't think we want to get into the theater business. We want something that we can use and if you have an adequate size stage - the stage could even be one of your convertible rooms and I came from a high school where ,the stage was a gym - it had all the draperies and everything else you needed but it served as a gym for Don's basketball games half the time. If you get a good convertible type of multi-purpose building-I think it can take care of everything, and I feel it should be in this building because one roof is cheaper than three roofs. I looked into,Mary'-the senior citizens, cause we were on that Commission and I kept hearing, and I said why in the h--- don't they take one of the schools that we closed and make that the whole thing. When 'I looked'into it - they expect - well they get - they, not expect - they get $87,000 a year, which is $7,250 a month rent for one facillty for Santa Anita... How much? $87,000 a year there's no way the senior citizens are going to be able I to afford $7,250 a month rent. That's what....I was on the Senior Commission when it came up for them to use Bonita Park School. And when it came to the cost of operating PELLEGRINO I YOUNG HANNAH WATTS LOJESKI YOUNG WATTS HANNAH GILB YOUNG PELLEGRINO YOUNG PELLEGRINO I YOUNG GILB 38. it- I was not shocked by the ceist, but most of the Seniors were shocked by the cost to operate it. So then they immediately cooled to the fact because even though I've tried, I haven't succeeded in getting them out to do some fund raisers for themselves. And they just were defeated 'when they heard the cost. Yes and it's an 8% increase a year rent - on the rent basis so. its quite a lot of property I'm sure. And it's an awful expense for someone to take that over and not have a fund raiser to subsidize it. That's right. Do you have sufficient information to.... I'd like to sumarize just to make sure we're all on the same track. We have a clear consensus that we want a consultant to look at a new Police facility, a new City Hall. What about - Councilwoman Young just said she prefers a multi-purpose room as opposed to a fixed seat auditorium, and I didn't hear the responses from other Councilmen. (Several talking at once - some said they were in favor) I can't answer that question till I see what the cost differential is. Yes.. . Ok - you want to see it both ways then. I think we should ...... If you have a multi-purpose room and you were able to put tables up for a party then you would have to have a kitchen. Oh, absolutely. Definitely. Well, you can have - there's a wide assortment of ~itchens. What's a big room without a kitchen? You can have serving kitchens or you can have full cooking kitchens. They're two different things. YoU have a lot ...... then you have to hire someone to run that whole show. I YOUNG HANNAH WATTS LOJESKI HANNAH WATTS PELLEGRINO GILB LOJESKI GI[B- WATTS - PELLEGRINO YOUNG LOJESKI GILB WATTS HANNAH WATTS YOUNG 39. " Well, if it's a serving kitchen you hire a caterer to bring everything in and serve, you hire - use them as you need them. George I think that..... I heard here that we would like to see the costs or a presentation both ways - as separate buildings and as a single multi-purpose building and I think that we should probably do that and cost it out too. Ok. You're also looking George,at retaining, obviously, the - I guess the building we're sitting in here. I Definitely. I assume that's the Councils consensus? Oh yes. Yes, you mean you would leave-up taking this down? Not me. Not me coach. And what about the Soccer Field? See whatever he can put it on where would we whatever land is available. yes..... I think..... I refuse to answer that. I'm not in favor of moving that Soccer Field, I'll tell you.... you tell those people they're going to Chicago Park. (Several talking at once) We can't do that we've got to tell them pretty much where this thing is going to sit, otherwise you're going' to have unbelievable array of We've alternatives. / got to hone it down here as to what the site 'is going to be. Give him the plot map for the City Hall big enough for the Soccer "'ld., Ok. And if it won't fit why then we'll talk about it ...... PELLEGRINO HANNAH HANNAH YOUNG HANNAH I "LlEGR! N<J VlATTS PELLEGRINO WATTS YOUNG HANNAH PELLEGRINO GILB IHANNAH 40. That's not my field. Yes, welL.... We can always stop - incorporate it...... (Several talking at once) I think that should have a full kitchen and a. serving kitchen, two different kinds. Pardon me - go ahead 'Don. That's not my feelino - I feel if we have the adequate room, without touching the. soccer"field fine but if he thinks that because of parking , or something we're going to need that Soccer Field than the City Recreation Department should lobk for another Soccer Field somewhere. I can tell you that without. spending any - dollar one for a consultant. The consultant is going to say yes, if you've got that vacant property use it - you'd be a fool to spend money to build a parking structure when you've got land sitting there. That's - I don't think the point - the point is the political question is to whether you want to find another location and spend the money for a new Soccer Field as part of this project. If need be. How else could you build it without using it? I don't think I heard a consensus on that one Councilman. I don't know....... I'm.... Let's leave it up to the consultant - I'm not so sure we need a parking structure..". I got to bite the bullet. Can't go to heaven unless you die, Mr. Gilb tells me. That's true. recalls in town. Man 700 of them showed up one night and we didn't want to put the lights up. Anything else George on this particular subject? WATTS HAN~AH LOJESKI HANNAH LOJESKI PELLEGRINO GILB WATTS GILB l~ATTS GILB WATTS GILB PELLEGRINO WATTS HANNAH KINNAHAN 41. " Not on this subject. Don. I do. Pardon me - Dennis. I'll try this a~ain for the third year running, and that's the consideration of the Armory site. I was accused of always having somethin~ to do with the Army or something when I brouqht this up but, the practicality of that particular site being - located. If there wasn't a or that particular facility being where it's site particularly better suited for an Armoryl know, an extension into that particular area and in relationshio to, you perhaps a new Police facility or whatever the case may' be . There you qo.... there's the Soccer Field saved. Mr. Mayor, also the property of the Forrestry Service is for sale - I wonder if it's possible that the Armory would like to move up there? How do you work that out or who do you talk to or something? We would have to buy the Forrestry property and give it to the Armory. And then we'd get this for nothin~? Well, I don't know but that's - would be the basic concept. But we would have to find a place first for the Forest Service. The -Forest Service is gone. No, they're not. I thought they vacated already. Chicago Park is pretty nice too. It's up for sale but part of the deal is the buyer has to find or build them a facility that meets their approval, that's the problem. 'he, do" 'h,' 010ill' Pete, do you know if there's been any bidders on that? May l8th- -the'bids i:lose'f5rftheqForrestry.'Station. HANNAH KINNAHAN HANNAH LOJESKI I HANNAH LOJESKI HANNAH KINNAHAN 42. " It is close? It will May 18th, that's the closing date. May 18th. Ok. Yes, I only bring that up because again, you know, 'it's an awful prime piece of property. It's water under the bridge at this point, that's probably a bad pun, but I've always felt that if a medical building, for example, were to be put adjacent to the hospital some place, it always seemed a little bit more practical to keep it on the same side of the street as the hospital - well ok that's not going to happen and obviously the medical facility will be on the opposite of the street, with some sort of a bridge over the top, or something. But, I think that's an awfully prime piece of property, again, to house simply that type of facility. Now, let me qive you another for instance, and I don't know what the structural ramifications are of that particular building, but that Armory site is a very large facility. Structurally I don't know how it's built, Is it of structural soundness that that could be the basis of a auditorium? "I don't know, I've never been inside of that building and - it's built like a fortress as far as I can tell. I don't know. (Several persons talking at once) Something to consider, perhaps conversion or something like that. Have you ever looked at that property Pete, are you familiar with it? Yessir, we did last year as we prepared the preliminary search and the report, and I contacted the Armory at the time, they indicated the willing- ness to cooperate, but they said "we would like to have certain things in the relocation site - One - is a suitable size site, with suitable facilities than we now have, this is a very attractive site to us. We don't I want it too far off the freeway, we don't want it close to residential, we don't want it too"- went through several other things. They sa i d, "but HANNAH LOJESKI HANNAH PELLEGRINO HANNAH PELLEGRINO GILB HANNAH YOUNG HANNAH KINf1AHAN LOGESKI KINNAHAN 43. 1 I J . we're willing to cooperate". So it's like - ~ou find me the perfect site we're willing to talkl to you. What do you propose: we do, Dennis? Anything other than No, I just bring it up - you know - again from the standpoint - I think it's underutiTization of a site that's propbably one of the most prime pieces of property in the City of Arcadia. And to have an Armory, a United States Armory on that - your site I'm not sure is - today 1984 the best use of that piece of property, and if the thing could somehow structurall be - you know - worked around and again, I would look very seriously at structurally what that bUllding is like. He're talking about a Senior Center and all that kind of thing, well, can that be and is that an appropriate site where you could , you know, keep the foundation or the walls or something and go from there, I don't know. George. George - staff they could look into it. Ok. Use it as part of the Civic Center. It would be a good Police Department. over there - access to Huntington both ways and in and out and..... I think we ought to - if ,we. can get the property fine - I think we're going to build a Police Department over there, to put them in an old building is - but I think- it should be in our complex of City Hall properties, I don't know how you'd get it, but, maybe they're going. to disband the Army. George, will you pursue. that? Is there Redevelopment land someplace that the Armory could be moved to? I don't know. No - the only land we have is now How about Third and Huntington? Third and Huntington is not suited for this. I (Others talking at the same time) HATTS LOJESKI tEllEGR!NO GILB WATTS WATTS GILB HANNAH WATTS HANNAH YOUNG HANNAH YOUNG WATTS YOUNG WATTS I 44. " 11 ". My question, gentlemen - ladies and gentlemen, do you want to hold up movinq ahead with the RFP while we pursue whether or not we're going to be able to find another location for the Armory? No, that's not my intent. My intent was to throw that out as a 'hey this is, you know, here and is it something that I can instill with Council to think gee, let's think about it' - rather than turning around accusing me of a conflict of interest with' the -'you know 'National Guard or something, that's basically what was going on through, here. Maybe they'll take Chicago Park - it's'near the 605 Freeway;. (Several others talking also) What's an RFP? Request for Proposal. What's an RFQ? Request for Qualifications. Got it. Ok. Does that satisify you George, as far as you're Got a feeling that's all I'm going to get. Let's go on to the next subject. Oh, may I just add one thina? Please. I think in that - you should look into the auditorium with the flat floor and moveable seats and the auditorium with the fixed seats. I mean, because they're going to be quite different. Yes, you mentioned that - that you wanted to see it both ways, yes. Yes. Ok. STUDY SESSION APRIL 24, 1984 CIVIC CENTER PROJECT,REVIEW 24. \ ',I ! /x HANNAH CITY ClK HANNAH WATTS 20. City Council and convene the "Redevelopment Agency. Madame City Clerk may we have a roll call vote please. Gilb-yes, here, lojeski-here, Pellegrino-present, Youna-here, and Hannah- here. Ok - George. Ok - Mr. Mayor, Members of the City Council, we have provided the Council with the latest information on the - so-called Civic Center project - we have also provided the two newest council members with information that had been provided to the Council several months ago. To summarize that information, last .June the City Council came to a consensus concerning this project that included the following things: One - that the new City Hall complex, probably a high-rise configuration. A new Police facility. It was not clear whether the Council wished to include a Senior Citizen facility or possibly a multi-purpose recreation facility that would include a Senior Citizen facility. As you could see from the recommendation in our report that we provided you, if the Council wishes to proceed that way we would recommend a multi-purpose facility rather than one solely for Senior Citizens. The Council also reached a consensus that they not include a soccer field in the development area, that the existing Council Chamber buildina would be retained, that all other - and that all other uses that were outlined in the May 1983 report were rejected. Since then we have solicited 20 architectural consultino firms for an RFQ, which is a Request for Qualifications, basically this is a step precedent to an RFP, a Request for Proposal. That is, we want to go to 20 of the top firms in the area, have them submit only the quali- fications to this subject and then weed that down to two or three firms that we could recommend to the Council to go for a Request for Proposal, that is, we would then from those two or three firms get specific proposal back for the specific work involved. Before we do that we need additional 26. and more specific information from the Council Defore we can ask for a Request for Proposal. We hope to have the RFQ's in hand by the end of the month and a recommendation before the Council next month, the RFP. Tonight we would like to discuss further the project with the Council to see if the previous Council consensus still stands, if you want to make any changes or additions to the basic concept, and particularly with respect to the Senior Citizen or multi-purpose recreation facility. Will you start us off Councilman Gilb? How do we pay for this? We have allocated approximately $3,~OO,Onn,oo a mi 11 ion and a half 1 ast year. .. from CapitaL.. and we have.... SHUSTER We - if the Council appropriated a million and a half that's in this years budget and I think tonight Mr. Watts is going to also present the budgets, proposed budget for next year, that would be in the Capital Outlay Fund and the Council, if they so wish, could also appropriate another million and a half - that would qive you three million to work within our limitations also, you know, with because we have some limitations - Prop 4 limitation that was passed in 1979 and that would work within the limitations. HANNAH Might add that by the time that this building would commence the City would have sufficient funds to pay for the entire building. In 1985, this is supposedly when we would get something in the ground. What happens to the City if the Jarvis Amendment goes through and - how would that affect the City, that all the taxes passed will be rescinded? GILB HANNAH We haven't passed any taxes,to my knowledge,in the last two year period that would be rescinded. GILB That's not necessarily so. SHUSTER There could be some ramifications if the Jarvis - if the new Jarvis Bill passes in November. Some of the money that we have been getting in the HANNAH SHUSTER GILB SHUSTER GILB SHUSTER GILB SHUSTER GILB SHUSTER GILB SHUSTER HANNAH PELLEGRINO 27. past, on property taxes for example because - it's kind of hazy - they're Qoing back and adjustinQ - under Prop 13 - going back to 1975-76 - so we could loose some property tax revenue out of the General Fund cause all the Property Tax goes to the General Fund. But that's not a new tax. That's not a new tax. The only other item that could be of a questionaole nature may be that the money that goes into the Sewer Replacement Fund, right now there's some money that Qoes in there, that's that 50 cents per dwelling per residential - two dollars for all others. And part of thlt money goes back in the General Fund to pay for sewer maintenance next year to the tune of about $90. vlhat about the Uti 1 ity Tax? No. It would not affect the Utility Tax? No,because-see the Uti1ity'Tax - you start at the 5% way prior to 1978 when Prop 13.... Way pri or to - a couple oJ days - Ok.. No...... That was..... we had a meeting at 6 o'clock on a Friday night..... No - that was - remember there was an increase of 5 to 7.... Ok-but that will not be affected. That was an increase from 5 to 7, in 1978 they increased it from 5 to 7 and then subsequently a short time later they reduced it back to 5%. But your 5% has been in effect a long time prior to Prop 13 announced in June of 197B. Thank' you. Mr. Shuster, while you're ~p - we set a million an< a half aside, at that time we called it something else because of the tel mino10gy, we didn't have all stuff there, so we earnarked it for the SHUSTER PELLEGRINO SHUSTER HANNAH SHUSTER HANNAH SHUSTER HANNAH SHUSTER HANNAH SHUSTER 28. improvement of City Property instead of Civic Center. Right. So that - ok, also with this new Tucker bill from the Race Track, how much do you see that we'll be getting from the Race Track this year? Well we're estimatinq approximately $2,000,000. but if you take out, you know, a million and a half you've got some left, but then you also have to payout of that also the Traffic Enforcement, the Police Traffic Enforce- ment. All immaterial-we have approximately a million and a half from the meet just completed and we got about $400,000 from the Oak Tree. that's about $1,900.000 and the total cost of the Police was about $350,000, if I understood it correctly. Well it comes out to - yes, about $350.... So we're going to end up with at least a million and a half in revenues from the Race Track that can be allocated tc a Capital Improvement. Well yes - there is, but I'm saying I think the Council would want to see after, let's say, the architects and engineers come up with a project, what the cost is going to be. Because on a cash flow basis, if you want to pay for it, the Tucker bill money, if that's tonight there will be passed out in the 5 year budget - and in thi t Capital Outlay Fund it will show a 5 year projection of that Fund which is the Capital Outlay Fund which if the Tucker bill money goe~ in, and you will be able to see it there - you know - within 5 years ~nat kind of cas~ balance you will have. I'd like to ask you what happened to the $700,000 Ie got oack from the Senior Citizen? Didn' _ that go back in Capital Ou lay? Yes, that's..... in there. That's already in there, so if WE allocate a mill- In and a half this year . ' we would have $3,700,1)00. Well I have to..... WATTS HANNAH WATTS HANNAH PELLEGRINO WATTS PELLEGRINO YOUNG WATTS YOUNG PELLEGRINO <,9. The discussion tonight about the actual dollars and where we're 90ing to get the money is very premature. We haven't decided to build it yet so..... Well the main thing about - well the next ste? - the most important next step in terms of getting a consultant is to find out exactly what the costs will be for the various type of facilities that you want. At that pOint then we'd look and see what monies are available.. We haven't, really, the foggiest idea of what these facilities will cost, because, again, we're talking about a possibility of a multi-purpose recreation facility, a city hall, 1 forgot to mention the auditorium, a community auditorium which is part of that. We could be talking 10 - 12 - 15 - 2a million dollars depending on what the Co, ncil ends up finally doing. Obviously if we get into figures that high, pay as you go isn't qoinq to cut it, a bond issue would be necessary - of some kind. But we don't know, we don't have that kind of expertise on the staff to be able to tell you - we can give you some wild 9uesses, but we need - first of all for you to tell us the exact facilities that you would like to see the consultant put a figure on, and then we'll qo out and recommend to you the best consultant we can find to give you those figures..... 00 you think it's only go ahead... Why did staff recommend not to touch the Soccer Field? We didn't-that was the Council's decision. It was? Why? , don't recall quite frankly, maybe some of the Councilmen are here. Well, it's tied up partly in the way it was funded, isn't it? Well we'd have to replace the money that we received by Grant. We'd bui1 the field somewhere e1s~ if we eliminated this one, that's for sure - I t ID WATTS GILB HA~NAH GILB I'm just saying. yes..... that's partly. Mr. Mayor. Yes. I think this discussion is germane to the subject, if the staff is going to spend a lot of time and we're going out and hire a consultant, we're going to build a building that you and I know is going to cost $15,000,080 - I mean there-$10,000,088 or something. And if it's the philosophy of part of the Council that the citizens should vote on this or at least let them know how it's to be funded - I just happen to believe - I don't think the staff should spend all their time going all through this unless we've all decided we're going to go ahead with this thing. This is not going to be a small project, to even develop what we want in it. Personally I can't conceive of it costing any 10-15 million dollars myself, and if it did I certainly wouldn't be in favor of it. think that we should find out - do we want to - this building is - the Police building is 28 years old - the other building is 34 years old. Facilities need - if we don't build a new facility we have to upgrade the existing facilities, no question in my mind, I don't think they're efficiently operated, I think we should discuss, No.1 - do we want to spend the money to upd .te our existing facility. Do we want to build a new building - if we want to build a new building, what do we want in it? And if we decide that that's what we want to do, do we want a four story building that includes an auditorium or do we want an eioht story building that might possibly include four stories of offices to help offset the cost of maintaining the building. I can't conceive of anything costing some $15,000,000, I'm not suggesting we build a Taj-Mahal for the City. I think it's a good idea to discuss it - possibility of getting some architect to give us some idea of what we should put here and a ball oark guess as to what HANNAH GILB HANNAH GILB HANNAH GILB HANNAH GILB WATTS PELLEGRINO YOUNG GILB YOUNG 31. it would cost. And from there we'll- if we have the money in our pocket- book we'll go ahead and if not we'll forget about the project. Well four years ago we discussed an auditorium and they wanted $6,000,000 to build the auditorium on property over there that the school district owns. And it seems to me that we need a new Police building, and tearing one down and puttinn another 9ne up is a lot different than buildinq an eight story building because you need a Police building. I don't know...., The existing Police building would remain until such time as the new facility is build. Pardon me. I say - the existing Police building would remain until such time as the new building is built. Well, not necessarily... And then we would - I assume that we would destroy the old building for parking purposes at that time. It's an assumption on my part, but I think we should have an expert come in and tell us. Well it's not inconceiva5le to tear the Police building down and put one there and use some other facility while it's being built - I mean it's not just cut and dried to say it'll go to another building until - that's a piece of property over there that's centrally located, that's goinn to be difficult to locate something else except parking over there. Certainly that could be one of the thinas that the consultant can look into and give us the recommendation on it. Well first I think George is looking for a consensus of 'do you think we should have a Police Department as one of the facilities we're going to do? . Oh, yes. That's a number one. I think that heads the list. PELLEGRINO LOJESKI ELLEGRINO GILB HANNAH YOUNG HANNAH YOUNG HANNAH PELLEGRINO 32. Second of all - do you think we need a City Hall? If we're goin~ to bui,ld a new Police Department, do you think we're going to need a new City Hall while we're doing them? Your facilities here, in many respects, are older than Police facilities, and if the inefficiency, I'm not sayine staff is inefficient, I'm sayine the way City Hall is laid out today in a tremendously inefficient manner, for somebody to go from one end of the building, down a flight of stairs and all the way to the other end of the other building. I ~o to a lot of City Hall's, I ike a lot of people, and 1 keep saying to myself, 'wouldn't it be nice, you know, if Arcadia had this', from Duarte to Sierra Madre. And [ would be in favor of a City Hall, and I think you would need the consensus of a majority of the - would be in favor of a City Hall - for them to look into it to see the feasibility of what it would cost us. I'm not in favor of a new City Hall. Mary. I'm not opposed to it. I feel if this is considered we ought to put as much under that roof as we can get there, and there I would go into the other activities also. Incorporate everythinG under 'one roof? The one thing I'm opposed to is office space for the public. We don't need it - it was just a thought possibly that it might help carry the cost of the building. The next issue I have here is . ..... ruled out anything, we discussed pros and cons of many things, but I don't think anything was ruled out. It says private use was rejected as they would compete with the private GILB PELLEGRINO YOUNG PELLEGRINO LO,JESKI YOUNG LO,lESKI YOUNG LOJESKI 33. sector prOjects. This is my guess. I think another thing is - would this be a multi-purpose bu~lding so that we could incorporate our senior citizens into some of the facility, some other activities, recreation facilities. I think we should look into it.... I would incorporate both of them. Include it into the project.... my opinion. I feel that we've tossed it around, you know, the senior center, community center, I don't care what you want to call it, it seems like every time a different location, other than one that's centrally located, always becomes rejected from either, one - the cost of the property, the cost of the, you know, purchasing the property, and then moving the facility there, or you get a tremendous opposition from the Senior Citizen Commission, or the senior citizens in general saying, "no we'd like to stay centrally located within the community", you know, closer to the facil ity, I guess that's near the park and that sort of thing.... I don't think that if they knew they could have it they'd turn it down anyplace. W..ll Mary I only go back, you know, I only, and maybe I'm speaking out o turn, but I go back 'ver, you know, lot more than just a couple of years of communication!. back and forth where the Commission, you know, adamantly stood on the grounds of "we either want it here or nowhere", you know, on a couple of sites. I think that's been tlue lately.. And that's really too bad because that's exactly what happened, when I believe it was Dave and myself, or Don and myself or whatever, I guess it's immaterial, when we met with the School Board. Two members of the School Board and their staff, and George was at the meeting, and Mike was there and, you know,the School Boarj finally came to the conclusi HANNAH PELLEGRINO HANNAH 34. that, and they said, you know, "yes, we're not in a position to say we want, the auditorium here or we want an auditorium there, we're now having to take the posture of, we'll take it anyplace, we don't care where it is, and we'll consequently support it accordingly", you know. I think that's the situation that everything and everyone has to look at sooner or later, where either you're going to get something or you're going to get nothing, and is something better, you know, more feasible than nothing. If you would go into that type of a situation I would, I personally like to see a true community center, one that was a multi-purpose type of facility, it could be used and I think a logical location, a logical spot because you don't have to purchase the property is right on this location. Don. I just want to voice my opinion that I only have six years on the Council, and I've been to a lot of City Hall's, and if you think Arcadia is a unique city - we do not have a facility that can hold a candle stick to a lot of cities. We do not have a City Hall - staff works with what they have and they do the best they can with what is provided for them, but they do not have the adequate room or the adequate services to give it. Whittier built a City Hall and you know, Charles is laughing and I lauahed at it, but they have a grant called a CDBG - Community Development Building Grant - and they have a grant for Old American Aunt Grant. We don't know how long these grants will be available because of what - the cutbacks the government and Reagan are doing, but these other cities tackle every possible grant that they can, to affol'd to do what the h--- they're doing, and I think we'd be - it would be ad lntageous to us to decide what we have, what we'd like to have in the Cit~ and if we can afford i~ to do it, because 30 years from now the Council's going to say we were crazy anyhow and they're going to rebuild aoain. I personally would like to see a study done and then we'll consider the PELLEGRINO HANNAH PELLEGRINO 35. cost, if we can't afford it obviously we'll rebuild it. Yes, but each one of us has something different that we think the City Hall should be, and we should include it so that we can do it as a multi- purpose building instead of a single phase..... one shot deal...... Want to start off with a recommendation Don? ~Iell, I just named four, George. I'd like to see a recreation facility where we don't have to beg the school. sponsor a lot of baseball teams, a lot of basketball teams almost every season. We have one season for basketball that the whole City can get. niqht recreation - can get in- volved in and after that they have to wait a whole year because there's 10 games-they're over with and we have to go - now we have to go to the new YMCA which is on Mountain Avenue, and that's no big thing bu~ senior citizens - when they have a little meeting - or a get together, they meet on Santa Anita Road - why someone hasn't been killed on Santa Anita crnssing that street, because they do not move 20 miles an hour across that street, is beyond me. I think we need somewhere where a gathering can be held. They say in the packet that we'll be in competition with the Ramada Inn, with the Granada Hotel, I don't think we're looking for competition, and if there is competition, well they'll have to sharpen their pencil, if there is competition. An auditorium - I have a problem with an auditorium cause we were faced with an auditorium where the school says "the h--- with you, we want the auditorium", and we said why build an auditorium if we have to keep funding it and paying for it for years because you can't serve alcohol beverages in the auditorium if it's on the school property. So how are you aoing to have a fund raiser in the auditorium to help subsidize the thing to make it so we, therefore, it'd be out of pocket money forever to help subsidize the auditorium just to mee: the lights. I don't know the answer to an auditorium but if it is in0.rporated in this maybe some- how it would pencil out. The auditorium was the last on my agenda items 36. HANNAH GILB because of the severe needs we need in the Police department. I mean you ~o in there and look at the shower room - it's pathetic - you guys are. ....... we've got a sickening City...... Gilb. I would - let me talk to you a minute about the auditorium. When we had all these studies 8 or 10 years ago about the auditorium we were told by the School District that if it isn't on the City property - School property they're not interested in it. They just told us that cold, they don't want to use it for class room everyday, they wanted it to be right next door. If it was across the street they'd have to put them in busses and take them across the street, they couldn't afford to do that. Maybe we've passed that time where we - it's not feasible to do that -we were talking about putting it on El Monte or over there on the wash and parking over there, that would be a separate building. I think that the Police Department is the No.1 project and I'm not sure that we wouldn't be better off to build a new Police Department and a new City Hall in different location - I mean I don't know the answer to that question. As far as the senior citizens are concerned, Mrs. Young knows more about that than do, the senior citizens have to'have a place that they can get to easily and with 13 Dial-a-Rides around town I think we can all get them there pretty quick, now we've got plenty of those things running around but, maybe the auditorium would have to be developed into a building rather than trying to build it separately, cause I don't think you're ever - if you get one built separately you're going to have - somebody is going to have to take care of the thing. And if the School District doesn't want to maintain the facility and we have to put it on school property and maintain it with City funds - I'm not too sure how much we'd even get to use it, because the school would have it all the time, and that wouldn't be fair to the citizens. LOJESKI GILB' HANNAH YOUNG PELLEGRINO GILB PELLEGRINO YOUNG ~! They can't even paint their buildings so that's not going - you don't maintain something.... I kJow..., Mary. I'm all for all of these things basically but I'm also very realistic and when it comes to an auditorium I feel that an auditorium with a slanted floor is - stands empty most of the time. If you can somehow have this multi-purpose with sliding walls, have a stage that is equipped but also beable to open up this multi-purpose room - granted you're sittin on stacked chairs or folding chairs but you could have the size that is usable for many things, you can have the stage that is usable, sure it's not like La Mirada's auditorium but they're out seeking commercial theatrical things to make it pay, and I don't think we want to net into the theater business. We want something that we can use and if you have an adequate size stage - the stage could even be one of your convertible rooms and I came from a high school where the stage was a gym - it had all the draperies and everything else you needed but it served as a gym for Don's basketball games half the time. If you get a good conv!rtible type of multi-purpose building-I think it can take care of everyth'ng, and I feel it should be in this building because one roof is cheaper than three roofs. I looked into,Mary -the senior citizens, cause we were on that Commission and I kept hearing, and I said why in the h--- don't they take one of the schools that we closed and make that the whole thing. When I looked into it - they expect - well they get - tt.~y, not expect - they get $87,000 a year, which is $7,250 a month rent for one facility for Santa Anita... How much? $87,000 a year there's no way the senior citizens are going to be able to afford $7,250 a month rent. That's what. ...1 was on the Senior Commission when it came up for them to use Bonita Park School. And when it came to the cost of operating PELLEGRINO YOUNG HANNAH WATTS LOJESKI YOUNG WATTS HANNAH GILB YOUNG PELLEGRINO YOUNG PELLEGRINO YOUNG GILB 38. it - I was not shocked by the cost, but most of the Seniors were shocked by the cost to operate it. So then they immediately cooled to the fact because even though I've tried, I haven't succeeded in getting them out to do some fund raisers for themselves. And they just were defeated when they heard the cost. Yes and it's an 8% increase a year rent - on the rent basis so. its quite a lot of property I'm sure. And it's an awful expense for someone to take that over and not have a fund raiser to subsidize it. That's right. Do you have sufficient information to.... I'd like to sumarize just to make sure we're all on the same track. We have a clear consensus that we want a consultant to look at a new Police facility, a new City Hall. What about - Councilwoman Young just said she prefers a multi-purpose room as opposed to a fixed seat auditorium, and I didn't hear the responses from other Councilmen. (Several talking at once - some said they were in favor) ] can't answer that question till I see what the cost differential is. Yes... Ok - you want to see it both ways then. ] think we should .. .... If you have a multi-purpose room and you were able to put tables up for a party then you would have to have a kitchen. Oh, absolutely. Definitely. Well, you can have - there's a wide assortment of kitchens. What's a big room withol t a kitchen? You can have serving ki .chens or you can have full cooking kitchens. They're two different things. You have a lot ...... then you have to hire someone to run that whole show. " '. YOUNG HANNAH WATTS LOJESKI HANNAH WATTS PELLEGRINO GILB LOJESKI GILB- I'1ATTS PELLEGRINO YOUNG LOJESKI GILB WATTS HANNAH WATTS YOUNG 39, Well, if it's a serving kitchen you hire a caterer to bring everything in and serve, you hire - use them as you need them. George I think that..... I heard here that we would like to see the costs or a presentation both ways - as separate buildings and as a sinqle multi-purpose building and I think that we should probably do that and cost it out too. Ok. You're also looking Georqe at retaining, obviously, the - I guess the building we're sitting in here. Definitely. I assume that's the Councils consensus? Oh yes. Yes, you mean you would leave-up taking this down? Not me. Not me coach. And what about the Soccer Field? See whatever he cnn put it on where would we - whatever land is available. yes..... I think..... I refuse to answer that I'm not in favor of mov 19 that Soccer Field, I'll tell you.... you tell those people they're going to ChicagJ Park. (Several talking at once) We can't do that we've a ,t to te 11 them prett I much where th i s th i ng is going to sit, otherwise you're going to hale unbelievable array of "e've alternatives. / got t, hone it down here as to what the site is going to be. Give him the plot map 'or the City Hall big ,nough for the Soccer Field. Ok. And if it won't fit why hen we'll talk about it ...... P.ELLEGRINO HANNAH HANNAH YOUNG HANNAH PELLEGRINO WATTS PELLEGRINO WATTS YOUNG HANNAH PELLEGRINO GILB HANNAH el() . That's not my field. Yes, well..... We can always stop - incorporate it...,.. (Several talking at once) I think that should have a full kitchen and a serving kitchen. two different kinds. Pardon me - go ahead Don. That's not my feelina - I feel if we have the adequate room, without touching the soccer field fine but if he thinks that because of parking . or something we're going to need that Soccer Field than the City Recreation Department should look for another Soccer Field somewhere. I can tell you that without' spending any - dollar one for a consultant. The consultant is going to say yes, if you've got that vacant property use it - you'd be a fool to spend money to build a parking structure when you've got land sitting there. That's - I don't think the point - the point is the political question is to whether you want to find another location and spend the money for a new Soccer Field as part of this project. If need be. How else could you build it witrJut using it? I don't think I heard a consensus on that onE Councilman. I don't know....... ['m.... Let's leave it up to the consultant - I'm not so sure we need a parking structure. .. . . I got to bite the bullet. Can't go to heaven unless you die, Mr. Gilb tells me. That's true. recalls in tOWII. Man 700 of them showed up one night and we didn't want to put the lights up. Anything else George on this particular subje :t? WATTS HAN~AH LOJESKI HANNAH LOJESKI PELLEGRINO GILB WATTS GILB WATTS GILB WATTS GILB PELLEGRINO WATTS RANNAH KINNAHAN ~ Not on this subject. Don. I do. Pardon me - Dennis. I'll try this a~ain for the third year running, and that's the consideration of the Armory site. I was accused of always having somethin9 to do with the Army or somethin9 when I brouaht this up but, the practicality of that particular site being - or that particular facility bein~ where it's located. If there wasn't a site particularly better suited for an Armory and in re1ationshio to, you know, an extension into that particular area perhaps a new Police facility or whatever the case may be . There you qo.... there's the Soccer Field saved. Mr. Mayor, also the property of the Forrestry Service is for sale - I , wonder if it's possible that the Armory would like to move up there? How do you work that out or who do you talk to or something? We would have to buy the Forrestry property and give it to the Armory. And then we'd get this for nothinq? Well, I don't know but that's - would be the,basic concept. But we would have to find a place first for the Forest Service. The Forest Service is gone. No, they're not. I thought they vacated already. . Chicago Park is pretty nice too. It's up for sale but part of the deal is the buyer has to find or build them a facility that meets their approval, that's the problem. Pete,do you know if there's 'been any bidders on that? When doe~ that clos May 18th _ the bids close for the Forrestry Station. '> I' f HANNAH KINNAHAN HANNAH LOJESKI HANNAH LOJESKI HANNAH KINNAHAN 42. It is close? It will May 18th, that's the closing date. May 18th. Ok. Yes, I only bring that up because again, you know, it's an awful prime piece of property. It's water under the bridge at this point, that's probably a bad pun, but I've always felt that if a medical building, for example, were to be put adjacent to the hospital some place, it always seemed a little bit more practical to keep it on the same side of the street as the hospital - well ok that's not going to happen and obviously the medical facility will be on the opposite of the street, with some sort of a bridge over the top, or something. But, I think that's an awfully prime piece of property, again, to house simply that type of facility. Now, let me qive you another for instance, and I don't know what the structural ramifications are of that particular building, but that Armory site is a, very large facility. Structurally I don't know how it's built. Is it of structural soundness that that could be the basis of a auditorium? I don't know, I've never been inside of that building and - it's built like a for.tress as far as I can tell. I don't know. (Several persons talking at once) Something to consider, perhaps conversion or something like that, Have you ever looked at that property Pete, are you familiar with it? Yessir, we did last year as we prepared the preliminary search and the report, and I contacted the Armory at the time, they indicated the willing- ness to cooperate, but they said "we would like to'have certain things in the relocation site - One - is a suitable size site, with suitable facilities than we now have, this is a very attractive site to us. We don't want it too far off the freeway, we don't want it close to residential, we don't want it too"- went through several 'other things. They said, "but r . , " HANNAH LOJESKI HANNAH PELLEGRINO HANNAH PELLEGRINO GILB HANNAH YOUNG HANNAH KI NNAHAN LOGESKI KINNAHAN ~1 ~~ . we're willing to cooperate". So it's like - ~ou find me the perfect site we're willing to talk to you. What do you propose we do, Dennis? Anything other than .. ..____ .__ No, I just brino it up - you know - again from the standpoint - I think it's underutilization of a site that's propbably one of the most prime pieces of property in the City of Arcadia, And to have an Armory, a United States Armory on that - your site I'm not sure is - today 1984 the best use of that piece nf property 3nd 1f thp thinG could somehow structurally be - you know - worked around - and again, I would look very seriously at structurally what that building is like, We're talking about a Senior Center and all that kind of thing, well, can'that be m__.___u_and 1S that an appropriate site where you could , you know, keep the foundation or the walls or something and go from there. ] don't know. Georoe. George - staff they could look into It Ok. Use it as part of the Civic Center. It would be a good Police Department. over there - access to Huntington both ways and in and out and. I think.we ouqht to - if we can get the property fine - I thlnk we're oo'~o to build a Police Department over therp, to put them in an old building is - but think- it should be in our complex of City Hal~ properties, I don't know how you'd oet it, but, maybe they're ooino to disband the Army. George, will you pursue that? Is there Redevelopment land someplace that the Armory could be 'moved to? I don't know. No - the only land we have is now How about Third and Huntington? Third and Hunt ngton is not suited for this, (Others talking at the same time . , WATTS LOJESKI PELLEGRINO GILB WATTS WATTS GILB HANNAH WATTS HANNAH YOUNG HANNAH YOUNG WATTS YOUNG WATTS 4&. My question, gentlemen - ladies and qentlemen, do you want to hold up movinq ahead with the RFP while we pursue whether or not we're going to be able to find another location for the Armory? No, that's not my intent. My intent was to throw that out as a 'hey this is, you know, here and is it something that I can instill with Council to think oee, let's think about it' - rather than turning around accusing me of a conflict of interest with the - you ~now National Guard or something, that's basically what was going on through here. Maybe they'll take Chicago Park - it's near the 605 Freeway, (Several others talkin9 also) What's an RFP? Request for Proposal. What's an RFQ? Request for Qualifications. Got it. Ok. Does that satisifY you George, as far as you're " .... Got a feeling that's all I'm going to get. Let's go on to the next subject. Oh, may I just add one thing? Please. I think in that - you should look into the auditorium with the flat floor and moveable seats and the auditorium with the fixed seats. mean, because they're going to be quite different. Yes, you mentioned that that you walted to see it both ways, yes. Yes. O~ '" ""m emotanJum Date ___!\Rr.iJ_l_~M-___ TO: Christine Van Maanen, City Clerk ;?'- Peter P. Kinnahan, Assistant City Manager for Economic Development Action by the Agency FROM: SUBJECT: The Agency last night came out of closed session and adopted the following motion 5-0: "That the staff obtain appraisals on the seven remalnlng parcels on Third Avenue for a cost not to exceed $35,000" Approved :In Im~ Michael iller Ci ty Attorney This should be entered on the Agency minutes for the meeting of April 24, 1984. 'pp",,' /f;:,f(~ . / lieo ge . a s City Manager/Executive Director PPK/ kf pvpr