HomeMy WebLinkAboutJULY 28,1981_3
1 INVOCATION
PLEDGE OF
ALLEGIANCE
ROLL CALL
Gilb:
Papay:
I
Ryan:
M I NUT E S
ARCADIA CITY COUNCIL
and the
ARCADIA SCHOOL BOARD
ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING
JULY 28, 1981
The City Council of the City of Arcadia and the Arcadia School
Board met in an adjourned regular meeting July 28, 1981 at 7:30 P.M.
in the City Hall Council Chamber.
PRESENT:
ABSENT:
Council Members Dring, Haltom, Pellegrino, Saelid, Gilb
None
PRESENT:
School Board Members Fickas, Friedman, Horstman, May, Papay
ABSENT:
None
The School Board and the City Council. It is not a Public Hearing.
We would then at the discretion of the Chair recognize anyone that
the School Board or the Council would like to come forward to explain
the point more fully. For example, on one of the Agenda items, Student
Driver Training Program. If someone in the audience would like to come
forward at the Council's request to explain that a little further that
is permissible. We certainly are not interested and I don't think the
audience is interested in a public hearing to debate as to what happened
in the last election. It certainly would be no further cause to where we
are at the present time. If that is agreeable with the School Board
Members that is the pattern we will follow. Is that agreeable with all of
the players? The first thing on the agenda when this came about we asked
the City Manager to contact our Superintendent of Schools to set up an
Agenda of what the School District would like to discuss with us. I don't
know if there have been copies for the audience or not. Have copies been
supplied for the audience? If there has not, then the first item and it
is a lengthy item is review of City/School District cooperative programs
and I would assume that Mrs. Papay is going to lead this discussion. Is
that correct?Or is Mr. Ryan?
First of all I would like to say that we are very pleased to be here tonight.
Sitting with the City Council to discuss the items on the Agenda and the
review really relates back to an item in August of last year when the Council
and the Board met for the first time in a public meeting and discussed the
cooperative programs or the cooperation that exists between the two bodies
in attempting to provide resources for our community. To begin this evening
I would like to call on Dr. Ryan to review just briefly what that cooperation
is.
The City and the School District have had a very long and cooperative
effort within the community. Among the various kinds of agreements we
have had through the years..a number of parks that were built on school
district grounds that were built by the city with capital expense being
provided by the city which are maintained by the school district, the
Arcadia High School swimming pool which was built many years ago..it was
built, as I recall with one third city funds and two thirds with school
district funds and is maintained with that same kind of basis now with the
city maintaining and operating the pool during the summer and the school
district during the rest of the year. Our continuation high school is a
-1-
7-28-81
-
Ryan:
building owned by us, a modular type building that is on city property.
These are simply an example of the type of programs we have had this past
year at full expense of the city, has been a reinstitution of the policeman
on campus program which has been a very successful program which we have
cut because of our decline in funds after Proposition 13 and the city paid
for that. It was a program we had split before. ...the cost...and the city is
paying the cost and not only is in existence at the Junior High School but
is now in existence in the High School. The City has used for recreation
programs many of the facilities at the High School and various ones at the
elementary schools also although not directly operated by the city most all
of the Little League and Soccer Programs are on various facilities owned
by the school district. I think this is just an example of some of the
things that have been done cooperatively.
Gilb:
Does anyone want to add further to that? Mrs. Papay.
[
Papay:
Thank you, Dr. Ryan. This provides a good background for our ensuing
discussion this evening.
1
Gilb:
Mr. Watts, do you have anything to add to that?
The next item, then is a discussion of the school district program and
personnel reductions over the past three years.
Papay:
Dr. Ryan has brought this evening some information for the council members
in terms of the program reductions experienced by the district since the
summer of 1978 and that really has translated into personnel reductions.
Most drastically those which we face in the Fall of this year. And I think
he is going to make this information available to us now.
Gilb:
Is there one for everybody up here? Ok. We need three , thank you. Are
you going to go over this item, Dr. Ryan?
r
t
Gilb:
I can just hastily sum it up. First of all since 1978 our budgets.....we are
now spending with the adoption of the 1981-82 school district budget....our
budget in 1981-82 will be around 11% to 12% larger than it was in '77,'78.
That as you can see is very much behind what inflationary costs and other
kinds of costs have been. The reason that we have been able to do this is
because of very major reductions in staff. With the opening of the 1981-82
school year we will have reduced our professional or our teaching staff..
as a matter of fact we will have reduced all kinds of staff..teaching,
administrative, counseling and classified..the maintenance and custodial
people by 25%. This will be at the same time with a corresponding reduction
in enrollment of 12% so that our personnel reductions have been almost twice
as great as the corresponding pupil reduction has been. The first sheet
that you have brings you up to '77- '78. ..and '78, '79 and indicates that
we reduced during those two years without any direct layoff of personnel.
We reduced some certificated positions by not replacing those people who
resigned or retired. The second page is the reductions we made immediately
at the beginning of the '78-'79 school year, a reduction that we made
primarily in the area of equipment , transportation, and that kind of thing
of 1.68 million dollars. The next report is the most recent reductions that
we made in which we had to go through the legal procedure of laying off some
61 people and this gives an indication of the programs that were reduced. 1
Again in summary we have had to reduce 25% of our staff with a correspond;
reduction of 12% of our students. Also as the council and board knows we
will reopen schools in the Fall with six elementary schools rather than ej t.
Does anyone have any questions from this information?
Ryan:
This really is an information item which explains why the budget has gone
up such a small amount because of the cut-backs. The next item we have
is the Student Driver Training Program which I have been reading about in
the newspaper. Who is going to handle that?
Papay:
I will just provide a couple of opening remarks about this item. We have
-2-
7-28-81
~
. ,
Papay:
up until this point provided Driver Education or Driver Training, that
is, behind-the-wheel training for our students at Arcadia High School once
they reach the proper age and we are not showing that item in our adoption
budget for the 1981-'82 school year simply because the amount of reimbursement
that is provided to the school district is in the neighborhood of $60 per
student and the amount it costs the school district to provide this program
is approximately $85 per student. ..to $90 per student and we find this an
expense although value in a number of ways, this is not an expense which
yields academic, direct academic results and therefore the Board at this
point is considering deleting this item from our budget for the next year.
We also have just discovered an interpretation of I believe it is in AB777.
Is that correct, Dr. Ryan?
Ryan:
That is correct. That is the new school finance measure.
Papay:
This makes the program permissive rather than mandatory..is indicating that
in order for us to receive our funding for this past year when we have already
offered the program, we are going to have to provide the program in the
next year. This is one of those programs where the' funding is one year
in arrears. So that is not exactly what I could call permissive. But it
means that we are going to experience something of a loss of course by
dropping the program but if we continue it we also continue funding difficult-
ies from this point forward because the reimbursement simply does not meet
the cost.
1
Gilb:
As a matter of information, I want to ask two question, please. Is this
open to every student who wants to take it?
Ryan:
It has been. Yes.
Gilb:
Is it available to every student or is it offered to everyone and then
anybody who gets in early gets it and the others don't. Is it that sort
of a thing? In other words is this kind of closed program to a certain
amount of the student~? If 300 students wanted to take it and it is only
physically possible to do a 190..what happens to the other 110? Or is
it available to all 300 students and can they all get this training?
Papay:
The students enter into this program on a basis of signing for it in the
activities and they are called upon as they are found upon the list. They
do manage to be serviced, eventually. All of the students who sign up for
the program.
Gilb:
May I ask how you run the program. Is it run through the school or do you
use a private agency ?
Ryan:
We used to operate it through,the schools and at the time when we could
no longer make the ends meet with the amount of money we were receiving
from the state we contracted it out to a private instructor and up until
the first year he did it for an amount of money that ..the contractor did
it for the amount of money that he received from the state and this past
year it was close but he didn't quite make it and next year of course it
would go up correspondingly and there would be no increase in the reimbursemen
from the state over that period of time.
I
Gilb:
As a matter of a question.....I remember seeing automobiles allover the city
and the state that automobiles were supplied by automobile dealers. Were
those supplied by dealers to the school district at that time with no charge
and now there is a charge ?
Ryan:
It varies from district to district. Sometimes in some districts.....we
are not doing that any more because we have a contractor but in some districts
you will find a dealer that is giving the cars to the districts and the
districts have to pay the rehabilitation costs of the car to get it back on
the lot again after they turn it back in. Other cases, there is a direct
rental fee for the....
Gilb:
What was our case?
-3-
7-28-81
-
Ryan:
Gilb:
Ryan:
Gilb:
Horstman:
[~
Gilb:
Ryan:
Gilb:
Ryan:
Gilb:
Ryan:
Horstman:
Gilb:
Horstman:
r
Before we were contracting it out, it was a combination of the two.
And we found it more economical to contract this out?
The cost is not the cost of paying for the cars, it is paying the in-
structors.
Would anyone else like to add to this?
There are a couple of things I want to say about the driver training
program. One, we get reimbursed $60 and there is presently, I understand
a Bill in Sacramento that would prohibit your charging the difference in
the cost of the reimbursement and your actual cost. Our best advice, I
think, that the administration has been able to receive from Sacramento
is that we are not allowed additional fee. But there is evidently some
question about that because someone has a Bill in to say that we may not 1
or that we shall not. We went, I think, to the contracting out because
the minute the State said that this is the amount of money we will
reimburse you, period, a number of private companies sprang up almost over
night by charging that exact amount. Now the state has cut the price that
they will reimburse and that is obviously why the companies can no longer
do it for that much. I have a lot of ideas about how we could do it but
I don't think Chief Mitchell wants to hear them again.
Just a minute. I have a question. Then you can tell us how you would
like to do it.
What has been your loss on this program?
$16,000 during the '80-'81 year and we are projecting $25,000 for the
following year.
Because of the cost of the operation of the vehicles etc.?
The cost of the contractor has gone up. Yes.
The same amount of students? Roughly.
No. There would be more students.
I don't know if you remember. I mentioned this before when we had a joint
meeting and Chief Mitchell didn't think it was a good idea but
This isn't a meeting with Chief Mitchell.
But people like the police would be the people who would have to implement
it so that is why I say Chief Mitchell. I have suggested a number of times
that we should try to get a pilot program going in some school district
where the money....this $50 or whatever amount is spent..which comes not
from educational funds....hut from the penalty assessment fund for driver
penalty fees that are paid into the fund..be given to police departments
so that police officers can teach students to drive. And I still think
that has a lot of fallout benefits. If a young person grows up in a
community knowing that to learn to drive, they are going to have to go tOI
the police department and have a police officer teach them and if they kn(
that once they receive a drivers license that the people who evaluate the;
driving ability are going to be the people who taught them to drive and i
they didn't do well, they are going to get a ticket, I think it would hav
all kinds of benefits and I think if police officers were doing it we might
be able a lobby a little stronger in Sacramento for enough money for a
police officer to teach young people to drive. The Automobile Clubs say it
is a marvelous, worthwhile type of program and I don't think it is really up
to academic teachers to teach it if money for it comes out of teaching
English, Math and Social Studies.
-4-
7-28-81
~
Gilb:
Horstman:
Gilb:
Papay.
I
Gilb:
Papay:
Gilb:
Papay:
Ryan:
Gilb:
Eriedman:
Gilb:
I
Papay:
Gilb:
Papay:
Gilb:
Papay:
So what basically you are saying is that we should have more police
officers to be the driving instructors.
No. I don't think you need more police officers.
police officers. I think you could' use the money
assessment fund.
You could use off-duty
directly from the penalty
Thank you. I will ask the Chief to comment on that. Maybe later.
Next we have police protection and traffic safety (Crossing Guards.)
Don't we supply them? Do you want to start paying for them?
No. We need more.
You supply them. They are important to us. They are important to the
students, the parents, and the item is on here, Mr. Mayor, because we are
closing two schools. We will have a different traffic pattern in terms
of pedestrian traffic at least with our students come September and I think
we simply want to bring that to your attention. And specific details, the
working out of those details of where those crossing guards are best placed
is something that will take place in an administrative manner, I assume.
Perhaps someone down front wants to comment on that. I don't know.
Does anyone off-hand know how many that would be. Or we don't know until
we get them strategically placed ?
They have been strategically placed this year.. ....
But with the changing of the schools.
I know that there are members of the public who have some very strong
feelings about where they would like to see those guards placed in terms
of a new walking pattern. Do you have any more information on that Dr. Ryan?
There is a meeting scheduled for next week which will involve some of our
administrators and all of the police people.
Ok. Yes.
I think there are some people in the audience who were at our board meeting
last night that felt a concern about crossing guards and I believe that
once the staff has worked out the situation, will there be some way to
make an announcement to the public so that the people who have the concerns
can voice their concerns to the group that strategically located all of
these crossing guards?
What you are saying is if the school district got together and decided
these patterns... ..then it would seem the proper thing if the school board
would have a meeting and talk about nothing but crossing guards and where
they were being requested to be placed and then we would see whether we
could handle that item or not. But I think that is really an item that the
school board and the people involved would have to decide on the walking
patterns etc. We certainly would not know how many would be involved. We
might have some that you don't need now. I don't know where they all are.
Isn't that the proper procedure for that?
I am sure it is. I know that we need Chief Mitchell's guidance in discussing
or putting out information to parents in terms of walking patterns.
I am sure Chief Mitchell and the Police Department will be more than happy
to cooperate with that
I am sure he will too.
He is shaking his head back there. He is back there in the corner...because
that is of great concern to us. Ok.
Yes. The safety is of great concern to us.
-5-
7-28-81
4
Gilb:
Ryan:
Gilb:
Ryan:
r
Gilb:
Horstman:
Gilb:
Horstman:
Gilb:
Horstman
Gilb:
Horstman:
Ryan:
Gilb:
Horstman:
[:~
[:.
Gilb:
Pellegririo'
Gilb:
Yes. It is.
Ok. The extracurricular program charges. This is I assume the charges
and fees for band and whatever else, correct?
The purpose of putting that on the agenda was merely to inform the City
Council that since we last met with you we are going to be charging every
student at the high school $30 for all of the extra curricular activities
that is everyone that they participate in..that would be Drill Team,
Band, Football, Basketball etc.
$30 total or $30 for each one.
$30 for each activity.
So if a kid is in four sports and the band it is going to cost him $150.
1
He doesn't have time to do that and go to school.
So every extra-curricular activity will be $30.
Do they get towels?
No towels.
That is a new charge.
Could I say a little bit more. It isn't that we are just now going to
charge that. We have in the past couple of years charged more and more and
have been a little reluctant I guess until there has been a court case which
says that public schools may charge certain fees. I read this somewhere a
couple of years ago and I thought it sounded really clever...that "public
policy dictates that those to whom the benefits accrue, are those who pay for
those benefits and therefore those $30 extra-curricular fee is more on the
order of a cost for transportation involved for the extra-curricular activity.
A club activity would not necessitate a $30 charge but those activities like
the band and muscial groups and the athletic groups that ride the bus to and
from those events are the ones who will pay them to do that and the same
thing would be true at the junior high school.
Say everyone in baseball paid $30.....would that then pay for all of the
bus trips to wherever they go for the year?
I hope so.
It better.
It will come close but it won't pay it all.
They would not be assessed again is what I mean.
They pay now for home to school transportation also. We don't provide free
buses for that either.
What is your ridership percentage.. ...about? How many students ride? Letl
me hold on to that for a little bit. .when we talk about item 8 which we ar
going to get on to.
Are there any other charges that they intend to charge the student besides
the $30 ?
Have the student fees gone up when they register? For example ..for labs
and things like that? Who are we looking at?
Hr. Souders, if the answer is 'no'..just say "no".
please and give us the benefit of your knowledge on
Would you come down,
that subject ?
For the benefit of the tape, would you give us your name and address, please?
-6-
7-28-81
..,.
Souders:
Cilb:
Souders:
I
Cilb:
Souders:
Gilb:
Souders:
Cilb:
Souders:
Pellegrino:
Souders:
Gilb:
Pellegrino:
Gilb:
Pellegrino:
Horstman:
Cilb:
I
Papay:
Ryan:
Dring:
Elbert Souders. I am with the School District. There will be additional
fees not only in athletics, not only in music. There will be additional
fees for student body, additional fees for year book, additional fees for
various activities that they will have at the school and these will not
cover all of the costs but in a large measure will approximate the entire
cost.
Mr. Souders, before you leave, a student who registers and is not interested
in any of the activities, docsn1t want a year book..what would he do?
What he would do is just purchase a student body card and that would even
not be necessary. Approximately 1800 students , 1900 students of the
2400 will purchase student body cards. The student body card can be purchased
without the year book and would allow him to attend the various activities
such as football, basketball.
How much does a student body card cost?
I think it is around $18.
Is that up over last year ?
It will be going up.
It was $18 last year.
That is without the year book and things of that nature. The year book is
much more expensive.
How much is the year book?
I think it is around $15 or $16 .
It is well worth it. So there will be fees raised allover. Does anyone
have any questions?
I have a question. They mention fees that will not cover all of the costs..
so why didn't they figure the figures that would cover the cost?
That is almost impossible. For example, if a football team gets into the
play-offs for example, there would be additional trips they hadn't figured
on for example. That is one example that I can think of. And who knows
what gasoline is going to do. I heard it is going up 10% in the next
three months.
It seems awful funny that a student who would be on the football team
to the play-offs, has to pay to represent our city and our school.
goes
I agree.
That is the times. I think you could say that about almost any activity
whether it is debating, forensics or whatever it is.
I just wanted to add that we have enjoyed the support of a number of parent
groups also in the past.....and especially since the summer of 1978. We
have received a great deal of assistance from the music boosters club, the
athletic boosters club and this certainly has helped in the area of trans-
portation, in fact in the last year or so we have really been able to take
care of this transportation for our athletic teams by virtue of the support
of those booster clubs and money from the student body fund.
Both the bands and the athletic teams ..their transportation has been paid
for either by the booster groups or by the student body.
Mr. Nelson, how much additional revenue do you expect to raise through these
new fee charges?
-7-
7-28-81
-
Ryan:
Dring:
Ryan:
Dring:
Ryan:
Gilb:
[. '"oH',
Gilb:
Papay:
Gilb:
Papay.
[
The $30 per student will raise about $24,000.
~~at about the rest of them? I heard higher student body cards, more for
the year books......a number of different fees.
All that will raise is the increased cost of those items..in other words,
that is strictly an in an out item.
I understand. Do you know what kind of numbers those represent?
No. We could get those from the High School if you want them.
Are there any other questions? Somebody that is involved in these fund
raising activities......when there is fund raising for the band.....is all
of the money that they made during the year utilized that year or is some
carried over. I am just curious about it? Is it normally? 1
Hopefully. Yes.
For example. ...and I have not studied the books....the music club....at th
beginning of the year they spent something like $8,000 on percussion instr
ments, raised that much or more during the year and have some monies to carry
forward into the next year.
Ok. The next item is item 6, the Priority list for restoring school programs.
Last evening at the school board meeting the members looked at the items
that were cut for September of this year and in anticipation of questions
from....actually in item 7 we have listed Arcadia Educatonal Foundation. ...we
have a number of individuals in the community who have formed such a
foundation and they have requested from the school board a list of priorities
for restoration of program both academic and extra-curricular and last
evening at our board meeting we addressed that request and Dr. Ryan has
brought with him a list ..as we composed it..showing the board priorities..
should we receive monies from the educational foundation or from any other
source.
Give everyone a copy, would you? Just a moment. This is an interesting item.
Can someone take this over to the city hall and make some copies for those
in the audience? Here comes Catherine. Could you take this and make copies
for those in the audience who would be interested?
Thank you. There are five priorities on this incidentally.
Priority No. 1
Restoration of three academic junior high school teachers at
a cost of $70,000. We would anticipate in making this a priority
item for the foundation or any other source of funding that the
money would be advanced from our contingency fund and that is
going to bring our reserve down to a level of a bout 1 1/2% of
our budget which is far lower than what this board would like to
have but this item becomes rather important to us because with the
loss of personne~we are facing the class sizes at the junior
high school level in the academic areas and I am speaking now of
English, Mathematics, and that type of subject matter..those
class sizes are far above those we have experienced in the pastl
and we would like to feel that the need is greatest there for
bringing in an academic teacher....three academic teachers in t
area and bring those class sizes down to around two student per
class...that would be the net result of that. And we say under
this item..the first $70,000 that is raised by the Foundation,
would rebuild our contingency or reserve fund back up to $300,000
and $70,000 plus must be raised during 1982-'83 in order to
maintain these three teachers. So when we speak in terms of
personnel and restoring programs we are talking about an on-going
expense..one which you incur the first time..and then to continue
in this mode you incur it each year. You want to keep those
-8-
7-28-81
~
I
I
Papay:
Gilb:
Papay:
Dring:
Papay:
Gilb:
Papay:
Ryan:
Gilb:
Ryan:
Pellegrino:
Papay:
Gilb:
Papay:
Pellegrino:
teachers in contact with the students in the academic program.
May I say something, Mrs. Papay? The $70,000 will probably be $85.000
by the time 1982-'83 arrives with inflation.
Hopefully not that high.
I don't quite understand this. You indicate $70,000 for the restoration
of three teachers. You indicate the first $70,000 will go back into
the contingency fund. Does that mean the first $70,000 will not create
a restoration of three teachers?
No. The first $70,000 would create a restoration of three teachers and
we are hoping that this might be money that might be raised by the
Foundation to pay that but at this point they have really not..their fund
raising is not underway and their pockets are empty at this point. They
will begin their fund raising and we think this item is of such importance
that we would go out on a limb and advance this money in order to put these
teachers in these programs for September-June and then would be reimbursed
so to be speak by another source.
Priority No.2.
Deferred maintenance. That item is $90;000. Simply because
of some current legislation, raising $90,000 locally can be
matched by $90,000 from the state which would enable us to do
$180,000 worth of maintenance during 1981-'82 and certainly
an area that came in for cuts in a heavy way starting in the
summer of 1978 was the maintenance area. So at this point we do
not have our buildings in the most fit condition in terms of their
appearance and we wish that that were not the case but of course
we have found that the academic area is much more deserving than
the area of maintenance and yet these are public buildings and
deserve consideration too as a facility and this is why we think
the state has come up with this also and they are recognizing this
difficulty faced by school districts throughout the State of
California and would like to encourage by this matching money, the
maintaining and adequate condition of the school facilities.
Has this legislation passed?
Is this out of AB 777?
No. It is before AB 777..it has been in existence I believe for at
least one year. They are not funds you automatically get, you have to
apply for them.
You are not really sure you are going to get them, then?
Pretty sure. It is reasonably certain that we can get the money that
we apply for and if we got the $90.000 to match them.
Mrs. Papay, is this money deferred maintenance, due to vandalism or due
to just the general up keep of the school?
This is just for the purposes of general up keep.
This is for new roofs, and paint ?
This is above and beyond what you have budgeted for your school
They are offering this enticement if that is the right way to
this.
Yes.
year.
phrase
In other words if we will keep our schools in good shape, they will help
us fund for it.
-9-
7-28-81
~
[
[
Papay:
Gilb:
Ryan:
Papay:
Gilb:
Papay:
Pellegrino:
Papay:
Souders:
Pellegrino:
Souders:
Dr ing:
Souders:
Dring:
Souders:
Gilb:
Papay:
Gilb:
Souders:
Papay
Yes. A matching grant for $90,000.
~~at do you have budgeted, may I ask, for this item?
\,e don't have anything budgeted for this item.
He is asking what do we have budgeted normally for maintenance?
Just Curious....no big item. I am just curious about it.
Dr. May uses the term "catch up" and that is kind of where we are in
the maintenance area.
While he is looking that up , Mrs. Papay..on item one, what room size
are you looking at..how many students per teacher?
I would like to ask Mr. Souders to answer that question. Mr. Souders 1
the question is what class size would be anticipated without restorati,
of the three academic teachers and with the restoration of the three
teachers what would we see?
To put it in the proper perspective, now at the junior high level, the
average class size would be approximately 27.8. With the condition as
it now exists, it will run around 34 or 35 students at the junior high
school. At the senior high school, the average size runs around 27.6
and it would run around 34 or 35 without this restoration of additional
teachers and it will be primarily made up by increasing the class size
in many of the electives.
Mr. Souders, what is the rule
they do across the country ?
of thumb....per teacher per student that
What would they like to see as a room size?
Across the country? California has a much higher class size than many
of the Eastern States. I think you will find in the Eastern States you
will have a class size of 22, 23, or 24. California now has one of the
largest class size of any state in the Union. It ranks somewhere in the
middle forties..where they used to have one of the smallest class size.
Mr. Souders, are you saying that by adding three teachers we would
reduce the size from 34 to 27 students?
No. That is what we have at the present time. We will be deleting
at the junior high schools approximately anywhere from 5 to 6 to 7
teachers at each of the junior high schools. Then by adding 1 in the
academic areas, it would reduce the size of the academic classes around
33 or 34.
From what?
34 or 35.
The question that I asked about the maintenance..there
Mr. Nelson, did you say it was a matter of $50,000 for
going maintenance for the total district. .....$750,000
time. Pardon me. This would be beyond that? Ok.
is a budget item,
maintenance..on
'0< ,"0 '<000.'1
junior highs
Priority No.3.
Two counselors and two academic teachers at the
for a total of $90,000.
Just a minute, please. Mr. Souders has a question.
No.
Prioirity No.3. As you know in part of the reduction in force that
-10-
7-28-81
'"
I
I~
.
Papay:
Ryan:
Papay:
Gilb:
Papay:
Gilb:
Papay:
Horstman:
took place to go into effect this September, we have reduced overall
5 counselors. 3 at the junior high level....leaving one at each junior
high and we have reduced 2 counselors at the high school level so this
priority would restore 2 of the~counselors at the junior high level..and
2 acadmeic teachers. Are there aDY questions, Mr. Mayor, about that?
Priority No.4.
Two academic teachers and one counselor at the junior high
which would bring the full complement of counselors back at the
junior high level and also one elementary school teacher. That
priority is estimated at $90,000.
Priority No.5.
Two academic teachers, and one elective teacher at the high school
and one counselor at a junior high......
Dr. Ryan, do we have a misprint? Now we are going up in counseling
at the junior high school to 4.. . there must be an error.
In priority No. 4....there is a misprint. That should be Senior High
instead of Junior High.
Two academic teachers and one counselor at Senior High and one Elementary
School Teacher.
Priority No.5.
Two academic teachers, one elective teacher at the high school
and one counselor at a junior high bringing the full complement
in the fifith priority of counseling at the junior high school
level and all together with all of these, there would be an
emphasis upon restoration of academic teachers with the only
elective teaching position mentioned that being in Priority No.5.
By academics we are speaking of English, Math, Social Studies,
Science .
If I understand correctly this ..it was prioritized if the Foundation
or some other great gold hand comes and gives you $430,000..that list
was basically for the Foundation?
Yes.
Or if you get money from whatever source. We are going to have a review
of the Arcadia Educational Foundation. Is there anyone on the Board
in the audience who would like to come up and explain this to us?
Wellt then someone here can explain it.
I would like to ask Mrs. Horstman if she would like. Mrs. Horstman has
been in attendance at the Foundation Meetings from the inception of this
idea and perhaps you could provide us with just an overview of the
Foundation at this point.
I think the first discussion about a Foundation ensued from a visit
Dr. Bruce Ballard made to Dr. Ryan last Fall, at the beginning of the
school year. There was a lot of discussion about various problems and
lack of money. Dr. Ballard discussed forming a foundation with a number
of people and they held a couple of preliminary meetings with a ,representa-
tive from the parent support group which presently exists....with someone
from the High School Music Club, the Booster Club, the PTA and discussed
how to go about incorporating and setting up by-laws and discussed that
-11-
7-28-81
4
[
['.
.
Horstman:
Gilb:
Horstman
Gilb:
Horstman:
Gilb:
Horstman:
Gilb:
Horstman:
way that South Pasadena, LaCanada, San Marino, and Beverly Hills
began their educational foundations for their schools and using the
by-laws and articles of incorporation from all of those communities and
their foundations~ drew up incorporation papers a little over a month
ago....six weeks ago and have formed now a Board that is to be limited
by their by-laws to from 20 to 30 people. I think they have reached
30 on their Board and their by-laws are finalized but have not been
approved by the entire group. They have been meeting every week but
unfortunately in July.....all of the 30 people are not all here. Their
first request to us was for a list of priorities on funds of $100,000
increments so that they would be able to formulate some kind of list
to go to the public with and say that these are the kinds of things we
are trying to raise money to reinstate in the Arcadia Schools. They
have done a really fantastic job. It is a little slow to get these people
together but they have done all of the ground work and they have a
publicity committee and a marketing committee a number of various 1
committees formed and the next meeting is not this week... .but next
Thursday night.
May I ask.....because I am on a couple of Foundation Boards....I would
like to tell you about some of the pros and cons involved. If I under-
stand the Arcadia Foundation was kind of generated from the success of
this type of Foundation in the City of Beverly Hills. Is that correct?
That is the grand-daddy.
Is this Foundation going to take into it all of the other fund raising
programs and then give them money as it is needed? Or is this going
to be separate deal.....where everyone is on their own? In other words
there will be a Band Club..Because I got into one of these and the
foundation took all of the other fund raisers..the alumni association
fund, the band fund.....it all came in and then the guy that ran the
foundation didn't want to give anyone anything. He wanted to decide.
In other words this is going to be separate from everything..
I hope so.
May I ask who their clients are going to be? I have to ask the question.
It is an honest question. If many of the people in the school district
are supportive of the band, or the football team.......then this founda-
tion to be successful...I am not trying to put in a black hand....I am
trying to be practical ..is going to have to solicit funding from
foundations and/or organizations, and/or big companies.
And/or individuals who don't have......there are surprisingly enough.
I know it is going to be hard for a lot of people to realize but there
are a lot of people in the City of Arcadia who are still interested in
the schools who don't have anybody in the band or on the football team
or in a group. I am one of them.
Or in any school and I am one of them.
The support groups in the past.....the music clubs, the athletic booste1rc...
have not been called upon to raise (until a year ago) as much money to
support those groups.....and Mr. Saelid, I am sure will bear me out
although he hasn't been there for a great length of time..It has been
in the last couple of years where the cost of transportation has been
turned over to those support groups. If the support groups could go
back to supporting their group with the kinds of support they used to
generate from a lot of their members.....they would not feel so compelled
to be in such an on-going, fund raising proposition to the extent they
have been in the past year or two.
-12-
7-28-81
~
1
I
Gilb:
I am trying to be the devilts advocate. Does this Foundation receive
their tax-free status. .tax status?
Horstman: They have applied for it.
Gilb:
Does anyone have any questions about the foundation? We have an item on
here. Arcadia area City Council would like the school district give more
attention. And Mr. Watts, I think you were going to ask the Chief to
present this.
Dring:
Does the school board know how much money they are going to receive from the
State this year?
Has it been decided yet, John?
Nelson:
It is within four tenths of a percent. Our total income for the year will
be slightly..approximately 18 million dollars. That is up less than 2%
from last year.
That is 18 million..from the state formulas. Part of that is local taxes
through the county.....which' we get 15% of our money from but that is our
total income which the state regulates.
Pellegrino: Would you explain what you meant when you said "up 18 million dollars and
down 2% ?
Nelson:
The school district will receive next year about 2% more money than the
last fiscal year. Of that money..approximately....it is all regulated by the
State ..controlled...as far as formulas. So for all practical purposes it is
all State aide. Of that $18 million, technically 15 % of that will come from
local property tax payers, through the county and distributed through the
State formulas. It comes to us directly from the local property tax payer.
So our $18 million budget is approximately 2% higher than a year ago. For
example a great deal of discussion..print was given in the local newspapers
throughout the State about the school districts getting 8% more money. That
8% they are referring to would be for a school district that was not declining
in enrollment and had average expenditures or lower. Mainly because of our
declining enrollment we will only be eligible for 2% more money than last
year and this coming year. I mean more money this year than last year.
Gilb:
Chief Mitchell, could you corne down ,please? Did you all get this parking
problem? The City Council received a number of complaints from citizens who
say the students park their cars in front of their homes and they can't get
out etc. and so the city manager, Mr. Watts, discussed it with the Chief of
Police, and presented it to the City Council. It has not been studied. We
just received the first draft to be given to the school board and are asking
your consideration on this matter..and if the Chief would please give us his
proposal to the public we would be grateful.
Mitchell: Your Honor, ladies and gentlemen, we, at the direction of the City Manager,
conducted a survey of the streets and the areas surronding the schools, as
well as the school on-site parking facility for students and submitted the
report that I believe was sent to everyone. As a result of this we determined
that 'yes' there is a problem caused by student parking, that there is an
interest shown by the residents to somehow regulate or control this activity
of parking in front of their homes..plus the trash depositing and other
activities that go on with the parking. That there is SOme complaint from the
residents about the parking zones that we currently have in place on El Monte
Street. This involves... ..everyone needs a different time for a different
activity. It is currently zones. We examined the residential areas for
possible solutions of zoning and we submitted that in our proposal, which
would involve installing restrictive parking control in residential streets..
for example El Monte, LaSierra, Park, Duarte, and possibly Campus. We
counted the spaces on the school thing and did an analysis on how many can
park on it and we talked to some of the students as to......we knew they
purchased stickers and couldn't understand why on some of our car counts
-13-
7-28-81
c
[
[~
-'"j
Mitchell: that the lot was relatively empty and some of the information that we got
from them was they bought the sticker and they wouldn't park in there be-
cause they couldn't leave when they wanted to.....The fact was it was just
easier to park on the street and run into their class. We examined the
current paved area of the high school and found that by alternating certain
activities such as volley ball or basket ball..even to the extent of paving
a new parking area, we could, we believe accommodate most of the vehicles on
school property. This of course would be the ultimate solution to the
residents and to the safety of the city. We submitted these recommendations
in three proposals. ....all of them have good points and all of them have
bad points, unfortunately. If we change one thing we have to look for what
it is going to cause. For example for one we found that the school bus fees
and in page 2 of the report at the top, we put $40 per semester....the in-
formation is $40 per quarter for a total of $160 here to ride a school bus.
The $5 parking lot fee is not a big deterrent but a lot of the kids were
driving their own cars because they said it was cheaper than buses.... .we dil
not analyze that to see if it was or not. The parking restrictions could be
increased in the streets around the school. We have the lady parkers". Of
the three whom we feel we could change some of the zones. We know that it
will be unpopular with many of the residents but we could control hourly
parking and cause a vehicle flow on the streets. We also could redo some of
the parking areas around the swimming pool and the paved portions that are
on the map that is attached and park more cars on the school property.
The ultimate for the residents and for the people we have talked
to accomplish this goal would be to have as many on the school area as possible
and try to keep most of the on street parking to the north side of Duarte
Road between Santa Anita and El Monte and on the South side of the Campus from
the school administration down to the football field and then control the
north side of the campus and the south side of Duarte by hourly parking .
It would, in our opinion , eliminate some of the running back and forth and
the parking there. Unfortunately, this proposition, we feel to not reduce
any of the activity at the school would involve relocation of basketball,
and volley ball and those poles from the present position on the South east
side of the swimming area to the grassy area just north of that location and
we even measured it and estimated through the office of Public Works. It
would cost approximately $57,000 to pave it which is a terrible cost. But we
feel that we need to do something in preparation for September. These were
recommendations that we looked at and were interested in working in any direction
that you so direct. If you have any questions......
Fickas:
Chief Mitchell, there has been a consideration brought before the school
board over the years both by the student body and the youth commission.....that
was to cover the wash and close the street or cover the wash and expand the
parking lot. Now that is the area just to the west of the existing parking lot.
Is there some reason that that was not a proposal here?
Mitchell: Yes, sir. We did that some time ago and the cost of covering the wash for
the number of spaces you get was prohibited. That is the highest cost parking
you could have.
Papay: Adding on to the question that Mr. Fickas proposed.....you also considered in
that the closing of the street next to the wash so that you could.....continuing
El Monte.....so that you would have a continuous parking lot......? 1
Mitchell: No , Mam..we did not..simply because we would not gain enough spaces ..we
have a heavy bus travel on that during race track period and that is our
alternate route to the freeway for exit patterns from Santa Anita and we nee
both lanes. That is why we didn't..an El Monte extension between Campus and
Duarte.
Pellegrino: Did we look at the closing of Campus Drive up to El Monte Drive?
Mitchell: No, sir, I did not.
Gilb:
Closing the entire street?
-14-
4
7-28-81
I
I
Pellegrino Yes, sir...the part from Santa Anita to El Monte?
~!itchell: The number of parking spaces would remain the same if we closed it if you
still let them in to park. If not, you would lose all of those spaces.
Gilb:
If it were closed we would use diagon~l parking and what would happen?
Hitchell: You would gain approximately 15... ..we did that for several athletic events and
special things and the number of cars gained is not that significant
Gilb:
Anyway this is a proposal that we would like to have the school board look at,
pursue and see what you think about it and due to the fact that we just got
it tonight 3nd you can hash it over and we can hash it over and see if there
is anything that can come out of it.
I sit here and look across Duarte Road and the parking lots of those churches.
Has anyone discussed using those parking lots?
Mitchell: That is one of the ideas that I had entertained but the directions for this
study was to see what we could do without going on to other peoples'..in
other words areas controlled by the city or by us. I am sure that is a
possibility to negotiate with the thing.. ...of course that again puts us with
the large volume of foot traffic across the highway which is Duarte which
carries volume traffic.
Gilb:
Does that answer your question? Has the school board ever considered it?
May:
Well you know, we see them sitting over there all the time and we would
dearly love to have the use of them but it is a problem as far as they are
concerned.....in the same matter that the city is concerned, debris, and things
and getting back and forth is a problem. But I thought if we could get..we
might be glad to spend the money to build a ramp over the street..
Fickas:
I would like to ask Chief Mitchell to what degree of seriousness does he
consider this problem. It is something we will look at but is it something
you are strongly recommending we take some kind of action on..is it a
serious problem in the neighborhoods?
Mitchell: The neighbors that contacted the city manager's office..it is a very serious
problem with them. It has grown every year and each year we have made some
attempt to change the zoning a little bit farther. We find exactly the
same comparison as to zoning for the race track traffic control. You cannot
drive three parkers out of range of whatever they want to get to. You
put the sign..they just go the extra lot and then the transference factor ..
we try it with the trackers, we move them to Fairview and then we move them
to Arcadia..and they will go all the way to Duarte, as far as we want a
sign. That is sort of a problem. I would say that it is serious to residents
around the school and I feel that for the safety factor..everybody travelling
back and forth..I am sure that you agree that anything we can do to improve
or decrease the number of students crossing our streets the bette~ off we are.
Fickas:
Dr. Ryan, do we have frequent calls at the district regarding this problem?
Ryan:
As far as the parking disturbances I have not had frequent
I would guess the High School would be the main recipient.
has that information.
calls to my office
Maybe Mr. Souders
Souders:
We would have some calls. .primarily from some of the churches....at times the
litter problem. sometimes the residential properties regarding the litter
problem. There are not that many calls in regard to the parents that live
in and around the school.
Horstman: Mr. Hayor, I live on La Sierra. Mr. Glen has been talking to me about it
for sometime but fortunately I live further down the street..although the
cars have been reaching further down the street and especially..My experience
has been over the past couple of years that the number of cars parked down
El Monte and on LaSierra have increased. I don't think, I could be wrong.....
I don't think it is the parking fee on the high school parking lot, I think
-15-
~
7-28-81
[
['~
,
Horstman:
it is the control we instituted to try to solve other problems on the
high school campus. I also have found that all of the people on El Monte
and on LaSierra who have expressed a concern about it are primarily con-
cerned about litter. The car is probably annoying. periodically to have
cars parked up and down the street but I think the main concern is that if
students come hack to their car and leave the campus and leave a sack or a
can..if they come back and eat lunch. .and I don't..Of course if we cut out
driver training that might take care of this.. ... ..There is still one thing
that I think might do it and that is some sort of better absence system at
the high school so that a student who is not in class and is supposed to be
would not be in his car eating lunch and littering the street. I bet I have
had as many calls as the city myself and I have managed so far. The traffic
control problem may be something else but there are not actually all that
many residents from the high school down to LaSierra, down to about..there
are four houses. .five houses down where it presently exists.
Chief Mitchell, may I ask you a question about your report.....on the firstl
page in the last paragraph, you indicate that an evaluation of the high
school indicates a school population of approximately 2400 students of which
25 to 30% drive and you indicate that that would be the daily vehicle use fo
students..around 600 or 700 vehicles a day. I wonder if you might indicate
how this information was. ....
Papay:
Mitchell:
We took the average number
people at the high school.
estimated on population.
of students. We made some calls and talked to some
Those are ball-park figures that they provided us..
Papay: Because I myself have noticed that there are times when othet streets are
utilized for parking by the students and there are still spaces that are
not in front of residential areas..that is, if you want to be a little further
up campus.....you could still get a few spots. But students show a pre-
ference for going down towards Mrs. Horstman's house.
Mitchell: There is a new one that most people don't notice and that is Park Avenue and
that is parked almost completely full on both sides. That was taken over this
year. We received a tremendous number of complaints. People..they don't
hate kids..they simply say they would like to have someone come to their
house during the day time and have a place to park and that type of thing.
It is getting farther every year as we are all aware. And we made these
car counts for some time and we know approximately the In
September we are sure that we will have new water marks and they will be higher
than we had last September.
Papay:
response to this irritation ..the neighbors' feelings
have any increase in patrol in that area?
in that area, do
In
you
Mitchell: Well there is no violation if there is no zoning.
Papay:
Of course not. But do you just run a patrol car a little more frequently ?
Mitchell: We try to get the lunch collectors down at LaSierra and El Monte and do other
police type activity to discourage it but again parking is the California
car syndrome.
Papay:
1
We will take this suggestion back to our next meeting.
Gilb:
It is a problem that confronts the city and I am sure that we can work to-
gether with the police departments and maybe we can come up with some type
of solution.
Papay:
We would like to take it under advisement here, Mr. Mayor. Thank you.
Saelid:
Would it be possible....since it is a problem....it may not be the most
important problem..but it is a major problem. Would it be possible to get
some feet-back from the board of education such that action can be taken if
we decide to do so before the opening of school ?
-16-
7-28-81
~
I
I~
,
Papay:
Ryan:
Papay:
. Saelid:
Our next scheduled meeting is next Monday night, the third of August and
then we are not scheduled for another metting until September at this point.
This is the only month in which.....we basically have one meeting.
We are suggesting that you may want So cancel the second meeting in August.
And I really think that you will probably have to..you may want a meeting
sometime around the 31st of August. That would have to be a Monday because
that is a six week stretch without a meeting.
And school begins on September 14th. Of course we are talking about suggestions
here which would take time to implement and reach a decision. I guess,
Mr. Saelid, that we can address this on the 3rd of August. I don't know that
we can come to a decision by that time but we could call ourselves together
a week later.
I realize the time is short and if you were to go out for a contract now for
example to pave it would never be done in time for school. But I think it
really ought to be a priority in terms of the board's intention if we do
decide to take any action.
Papay: We will address it expediently.
Fickas: Mr. Saelid, I think part of the solution lies with the students themselves and
we need to have them back in school to work with the student body officers and
the students. It is not going to be just, in my mind, a matter of changing
the facilities. It is a matter of changing attitudes and possibly changing
policies to help solve this problem. And for that we need those student
drivers back.
Saelid: A change in policy may change the students' attitudes.
Gilb: You mean like posting the streets? And putting the traffic control over there?
That would change everybody;s attitude. But you have to supply a place for
them to park. Would anyone else like to discuss that subject?
Horstman: I just made a comment..a lot of places don't provide spaces for everybody to
park.
Gilb:
While you are throwing it in.....according to Chief Mitchell's report, if I read
it right. Chief, what are your figures on how many parking places are provided
at the school compared with how many student drivers there are ?
Horstman 280.
Mitchell: 280 on school for students. There are 280 on the school site right now for
student parking.
Gilb:
Papay:
Gilb:
Papay:
Gilb:
Papay:
And there are 2400 students. 25% to 30% drive, which indicated daily vehicle
use for students about 600 or 700 vehicles a day.. And there is parking
provided at the school for 280..is that correct? Thank you. Is there
anything else you would like to discuss on the agenda or put on the agenda?
Do the council members have any other items that they..to which they would
like to give the attention?
Does the council have any other items they would like to give to the school
board?
It is an open invitation.
I know it is an open invitation but we have to sit here and tell you that you
are the school board and we are the city council.
We understand that.
-17-
7-28-81
.
[
G
Haltom:
Papay:
Ryan:
Papay:
Ryan:
. Gilb:
Nelson:
Gilb:
Nelson:
Gilb:
Nelson:
Gilb:
Have you pursued federal assistance.. ..is there any federal assistance
available to help you reinstate some of your programs?
Dr. Ryan.
No.
There were two questions.
We are taking every kind of federal fund that is available to us. The only
one we don't take is Title I for which we only receive something like
$35,000 or $40,000 which would be of no help to us in reinstating classes.....
you merely have to add on and do something different. It would cost more
to administer the program than it does to receive the money.
I have a question. Mr.
question. You told me
Is that adequate?
Nelson, this is going to sound like a rather academiCI
that you have $750,000 set aside for maintenance.
No.
What is adequate? All you can get or? What would you say?
That is less than 2% of the value of our property. Most school districts
in our situation with $46 million dollars worth of buildings would be
looking at a figure at least 35% to 40% higher.. That is what we had say
three years ago in comparison to what the dollar was worth at that time.
Since that time we have cut a little over 30%.
But you feel that $750... is sufficient? I am not trying to put words in
your mouth. If you ..just bear with me....this may sound dumb.....if you
put $750,000..why wouldn't you put $570 ...down and go for the 90..get the
180 and you still have the 750 and you have l80..to spend.
I would love to have been able to do that. If we could get away with it we
would. The reason that we have not been eligible for this funding in the
past is because they go back to previous years' expenditures and the effort
has to be greater than that. Since Prop 13, we have cut every year..therefore
not being eligible for matching funds because they go the previous year.
Otherwise your idea would work perfectly. If it weren't for that loop hole
we would try to use it probably.
I see. I was trying to show. Well it was a try. In regard..the purpose
of the meeting this evening was to meet with the school board and the
city council..as you know we are not going to plead poverty but we are going
to tell you we are getting up against it ourselves and we do not know what
our funding is going to be next year and therefore it has become a problem
for the council to decide among ourselves and the majority..exactly what or
if we can assist or we want to assist because I am not sure.....I think we
all want to assist the school district in some way..whether we can or not and
still do credit to our own job is something else. Some of the points that
you pointed out. ....the park maintenance we have considered and the student
driver program is an interesting one. The crossing guard is of ultimate
importance to us and surely with this rerouting of students we will get that,
back to us again and address that at the time..because that is of extreme
importance not only to the council but to the city and everyone. The extra-
curricular program charges which you handle and brought us up to day..the
priority list for restoring programs is going to be a Foundation item and f
us to...in my opinion..to , if we voted to assist in some way with priority
lists..that would be a function of the school board because you are running
the school board. The Foundation, we can only assist as individuals, I think.
The parking plan we have given to you. I have to say that coming to the
meeting I had mixed emotions. I heard that there was a school board
meeting this morning..but now I understand that there was not a school board
meeting this morning. What was the meeting this morning about and what
happened?
-18-
4
7-28-81
I
I
Papay:
Gilb
Ryan:
Papay:
Gilb:
Haltom:
Papay:
Haltom
Papay:
Haltom:
Papay:
Ryan:
Mr. Mayor, we have formed a committee recently to look into the future
of the two buildings which we decided to close in September. Bonita Park
and Santa Anita Schools and that committee in discharging its duties,
it is formed....it was needed to be formed by law... .they are looking
into possible leases and how the property will be used and they will-
be making a recommendation to the school board. And in discharging their
duties, it was incumbent upon them to hold a public hearing.. ..that is my
understanding of the situation. They held one this morning at 7:39 A.N.
It is a seven member committee by the way.. ..chaired by Dr. Nelson and
contains the members of that committee from various walks of life in the
community. There are parents represented, business people etc. and
they have one more committee public hearing scheduled where individuals
may come and say what they have to say about the future of those two
pr,operties and that meeting is to be held Thursday evening at 80'clock
in the board room. So it was not a meeting of the board but of the
committee..the name of the committee escapes me. Space utilization.....
Space Mountain?
Space non-utilization committee.
Is there a formal name to your committee?
Surplus property committee.
I have pretty well brought up to date my ideas of what we have discussed here.
I would like to know what the rest of the council feels. Mr. Haltom.
I have a few questions here that I think are foremost in some peoples' minds.
At least they have expressed that to me. You have expressed the percentages
of teachers or positions that were terminated. You have also expressed the
amount of positions, bodies, whatever....how many positions were terminated
as a result of the closure of the two schools?
In terms of certificated positions..they number basically four positions.
The two principals and the two special reading teachers. There were a
number of classified positions eliminated.. ...that is those people who are
serving in secretarial or custodial areas. And beyond that as students
travel to another school, they need their teachers to be with them so then
by closing schools you do not eliminate great numbers of personnel because
you still have to educate so there isn't a great reduction of personnel that
came up with the closure of the schools.
I understand that you ..how do you find the
that are integrated into the other schools?
do you have two teachers for some classes?
rooms for all of the teachers
Do you have surplus rooms ?
Or
First of all we have consolidation in terms of numbers of students per class-
room. And we also had empty spaces in the remaining or the empty classrooms
in the remaining six schools and we will be utilizing those classrooms to
educate the students coming from the other schools.
You had a lot of empty classrooms.... .to absorb two schools.
Our class sizes are going to grow. That is the most important thing..perhaps..
The closing of the schools..it eliminates roughly 240,000 worth of personnel
between the two of them and that is like Mrs. Papay pointed out..principals,
teachers and custodians..and secretaries. We have as I pointed out in my
original remarks...we have reduced some 100 teachers over the past three or
four years. And so with the reduction.....they were reduced primarily because
of lack of money and because of declining enrollment. I mentioned that we had
reduced our staff by 25% with a corresponding decline in enrollment of 12%.
Now that decline of enrollment has been heavier at the elementary level than
at the secondary level and so probably the decline of enrollment is something
-19-
7-28-81
.. ,
[
[
Ryan:
Haltom:
Papay:
Haltom:
Papay:
Haltom:
Papay:
Gilb:
Papay:
Gilb:
Papay:
Gilb:
Papay:
like 18% at the elementary leveL and something like 8% or 9% at the
secondary level.. As a result of that we have been losing the elementary
schools....this past year we operated with approximately 30 classrooms
vacant. That is roughly two elementary schools and so we closed two
elementary schools and moved the remaining students into the neighboring
schools.
On some of the other.. ....such as your programs, where you did not just dis-
continue them but reduced them by a percentage, does that mean that if you
reduced it by 20% and there were normally 100 students in that class that
you would only have 80% or does that mean that there would be larger classes
per teacher? I didn't make myself clear.
In some of your classes you have reduced by let's say 20%..and there is 100
students. If there were 100 students in the original class are you then
saying that you will reduce that class by 20% and you will have 80 students
in the class... 1
Reduction means a reduction in the number of offerings of a particular class
So if for example you have three classes of a particular English area, then
you are going to reduce in that program area.. ...you might reduce two out of
three of them and just hold one.
But how many students would be in the one? Say you are ,taking Drama I..and
you have three classes and you are reducing two classes and there are 30
students in each class.....90 students. How many students would be in the
class that remains?
However many will be allowed to program into that class. Certainly we are
going to have to observe a limit..so it will be less of an availability of
that particular subject matter for the particular student seeking that.....
Oh, I see. ....they wouldn't have 90 students in a class. ....that is obvious.
But would they have greater than 30?
They could go beyond that..sure.
a number of factors....if you are
sea ts you have ..
There could be 36. Each class
talking about a science class,
depends upon
or how many
As we leave this..
Let's not leave it yet. May we jump right here to "number ten" other matters
and we go to the other matter which is of great importance to all of us?
Ok. \fhat is the other matter ?
The other matter is just bringing all of these other items togethr into
number ten.
I just went over them all.
I know you did.
And that provided some background. I think I would like to go back to 1978
again and just before that period of time we were collecting a ten cent tax
rate and I want Dr. Nelson to help me with this..ten cents appeared on our I
taxation bills for us ..for something called community service useage and it
was with that money....a specific allocated to keeping our buildings in ord
etc. that we were able to do perhaps a better job and certainly we were bet
able to maintain in proportion to the amount of community service useage the
building received. That tax generated approximately $300,000 for our district
or would.....if it were today.. ...but we have been without that in a sense on
the tax rate and that money was really folded into our general education money.
That is what happened. I think you are aware.....we provided this evening.....
it certainly brings forward again the fact that we are trying to hold our own
in doing the best job we can in the academic areas and in so doing we are unable
to do what needs to be done in the maintenance areas for example. In doing
the things that that previous ten cent tax allowed us to do and we are aware
...
-20-
7-28-81
I
I
Papay:
Gilb:
Papay:
Gilb:
Haltom:
Gilb:
Saelid
Haltom:
Saelid:
that the facilities of this school district are available for everyone in
this community to use and we are happy that we have them. But we are having
a problem in maintaining them and we think that we have a tremendous re-
sponsibility just in the area of education and we are really here this evening
to see if we can make some accounting for the community services that occurs
by members of the community....whether or not it is directly related to a
school activity or not.....or is it a recreation department function or for
Seniors or whatever....to see if there is someway we might at least discuss
this evening sharing the responsibility for maintaining those buildings.
So you are looking for money......
Now we are at the bottom line.....you are looking for money.
M
... .right.
Don't walk....rush to the nearest exit.....ok.
We understand that. That has to do with the ,facility list that Mr. Collins
gave us. This. ....you corne across with the possibility for more crossing
guards. you talk about the possibility of us assisting with the sLudent driver
training program and some of these other things.. ..so I have to know what the
council feels about this matter. I personally have to say this. After we
look at all of this and decide with the majority of the council what we are
going to do.....which we should do in the very very near future and we find
out frankly what our legal position is....in transferring funds.....if it ever
came to that.....and I personally am not trying to put this off. I would just
like to know what the rest of the council feels about this. Because this takes
a little more studying than what we have here unless you are jUSL talking about..
you have given us a lot of ther things here to talk about.
In the recent election which was held to fund the schools for maintenance
facilities jointly shared.....that is not the exact wording .....but that is
it basically. I feel that if I funded money to these facilities I would be
going contrary to what the people expressed in their vote. That is my
feeling. They said lIno." Now maybe everybody in Arcadia didn't say "no"
but the majority of the people who voted said "no" we don't want our money
spen t this way.
Would anyone else like to make a statement on this matter please?
May I just comment and endorse what was said from the audience? The voters
said they didn't want to be taxed any more to pay for this additional service
or additional cost of facilities. Personally I still feel that Lhis is a
representative form of government and I feel that if we are using school
facilities and feel that we need those then that becomes a cost of program
that we are carrying on. Now whether that means that we pay for the cost of
maintaining that in its entirety is dependent upon how much we use it and
then we have to make a decision on the part of the council as to whether
that utilization of that ,facility and that program is worth the Lax money we
are talking about paying for it. Maybe one thing that we could talk about
and incidentally I agree that this would not really be the meeting at which
we should corne to a decision on this. I think we should look at it and decide
what is realistic. Maybe we can cut back the utilization of some of the
facilities such that the maintenance costs and the damage or the wear and tear
on the facilities is minimized. If we look at the men's gym for example and
we carryon basketball programs over there. ....it seems realistic to talk
in terms of a pro rated share of what the maintenance of the facility is based
on what the utilization is. If the school district uses the facility six pr
eight hours of the day and we use it three or four, we should have a proportion-
ate...this is off the top of my head...I don't know what we would put into it
to begin with....if anything..But I think we should look at it proportionately
and see what our cost of that maintenance should be. That would not run
counter to any reasonable person's judgment of the utilization of tax payers'
money. It would be a judgment on our part as to whether we would continue
to do that or do we back out of those programs.
Would you also then be re-endorsing the City for the things thaL they use
of ours.
That would work both ways.
...
-21-
7-28-81
[
[m
,
Haltom
As long as they realize that it is a two-way street.
Horstman One of the things that I would like to point out and ask that you think
about is..we have mentioned on a number of issues that we have begun to
charge fees for the first time to students for the use of the bus~ for
almost everything that we are allowed by law to do. If the city continues
to operate the present recreational programs.. the present senior citizen
program.....all of the programs that you operate and use the facilities
that belong to the school district, then it is within your power now to
charge whatever fee you think the traffic will bear to the people who use
those facilities. And that would be somewhat of a pretty good measure to
find out just how much the public was willing to subsidize the programs
themselves because I realize that you expend a great deal of money on
recreational program for all kinds of people in the community and then a
lot of youth groups use the school district facilities and they charge....
You make a donation when you participate in most of the youth activities. "'1'
or the youth athletic organizations. You know I said last night at the
school board meeting and I don't want to belabor this but I am usually the
most unpleasant one of us....l just naturally am....the city is the one with
the Arcadia Beautiful Commission that wants all of the property to look nice
and the grounds, the buildings, the homes everything here.. And it is going
to be....I am going to feel sorry when the only thing that really looks bad
are the schools that belong to the people who live here.
Gilb:
May I say something to that?
We on the Arcadia Beautiful Commission tried a clean up campaign and couldn't
get any cooperation from the school students at all. We had some representatives
here that said the students would rather throw it on the ground ..rather than
throw it in the trash can..which I have to say....we were talking about a
clean up campaign around the school.. ..around the junior highs.. ...maybe one
afternoon the students could get out on a Friday and maybe get out a little
bit early and clean up their own campus and nobody was interested.
Horstman: Talk to Mr. Fickas. He is the Youth Commission man.
Gilb: Am I correct, Mr. Fickas? He and I were at the same meeting. So that is
something that I have to throw back.. ...it is a fact of life. It is like
down town Hong Kong.....they have to clean it eight times a day because
everyone throws it on the ground instead of in a can. And perhaps some type
of program at the school would help that and I think the students could get
involved in something like that.
Horstman We can do that without it costing us any money, I think.
Gilb: I think so....all you need is the students....
Horstman If the roofs don't fall in.
Gilb:
May I make a suggestion for the council? Mr. Pellegrino, do you have some-
thing to say ?
Pellegrino Before I could make a decision, Mr. Mayor, I would like to see the figures
of what the city is using, what the school is using and then come back with
the school board and say this is what the percentages we are using the I
facility , this is what we are willing to pay and this is what we are not
willing to pay.
Cilb: I have to say whether we use that formula.....which is kind of knit picking
When we see what the crossing guards and some of these other things are going
to cost, I would like to see the council study these questions, schedule a
meeting in the first part of September and tell the school board if we are
or if we are not going to do something one way or the other. I think this..
is cat and mouse.....you have been caught up in a budget..we have a budget.
We donlt know where we are at the present time. We have these questions down
the road ourselves. We all have a different idea maybe as to where we are
-22-
7-28-81
~
I
I
Gilb:
May:
Gilb:
Nelson:
Gilb:
Papay:
Gilb:
Papay:
Gilb:
Papay:
Watts:
Gilb:
Ryan:
Papay:
Nelson:
Saelid:
Nelson:
,!,,, ~..tV ;,0":.
+- '~"1 t~.". ",-';.
and what we can do. I think we have to thrash that out among ourselves
before we can all sit here...and put someone on the council in an ernbarass-
ing position. It is not fair, until we look at all of the things..and yet
I think the school district and the school board is entitled to know where
we stand.
I am glad you are getting down to the nub of the question and if I can make
an observation, I think the city was fairly proper in bringing to the school
district a recommendation for something that would help you. And I think
we ought to work cooperatively on things like this and in ball-park figures
I would hope that maybe you could make some of the decisions to give us
$90,000... ..what that would mean in pure and simple language is ~hat we would
be very happy to put a fifty - seven thousand dollar parking lo~ in and we
would still have some more money to pay.....now can we do that, John..and to
clean up the maintenance and we would get your cars off the street which is
your problem.....our cars off of your street. And we would still have some
money left over for maintenance because it is going to be matching funds from
the state that we could use..
Do you have a time-frame with that, John?
It would be impossible to now, it is already August.
Is it agreeable then with the Council.....has everyone got a calendar?
Yes, go ahead, Mrs. Papay.
I just wanted to point out. I am sure that everyone will hold on to the
priority list that we provided this evening because we want to point out
again...this priority list is not just for the Foundation.
I think I said that. Anyone can come in with a Golden Hand or whatever.....
And especially Priority Item #2. ..the deferred maintenance is very important
to us now. Mr. Mayor, is the September meeting the first time you could
meet with us and have the information you need on your own budge~ary
situation. .
Our own wha t. .
Your budgetary situation?
I have a question for Dr. Ryan. Is
the matching funds from the State?
year. ....November deadline?
there any time limit
Can you do it at any
in terms.of getting
time during the
November is the deadline?
For application.....
Is this deferred maintenance opportunity expiring at some point in the future
or is it an open-ended program?
It is open-ended but it could expire at the end of any given year.....whatever
the legislature decides. We have a master plan..a five year plan involving
painting, roofing and asphalting....the major areas. And that is our proposal
to the State..in that area.
May I ask a question then
closing two schools now.
in the $750,000 budget?
..relating ~o that maintenance problem. You're
Is maintenance of these two properties included
Yes it is. As long as we still own the schools then we are ..we are not
committed to selling them at this time. We are looking to at least a five
-23-
7-28-81
~
r
['~
-' :~
Nelson:
Saelid:
Gilb:
Papay:
Nelson:
Haltom:
Ryan:
Gilb:
year period. We still have the need to maintain them so that we can sell
them someday.
I was sure your answer was going to be 'yes'.
As a matter of record maybe the people in the audience ,don't know why you
let }1.:tranatha out of town to go somewhere else. It was the timing.... .be-
cause you didn't know you were going to close the schools and they decided
to move. But I have had a lot of people ask me that...how come we let the
only business in town go to Sierra Madre? ..that wanted to rent a school.
Is that true? You didn't know you were going to close a school..
We were in the process of making our decision on
and they needed to have something more concrete.
on a location for several months before we named
which schools to close
They had been working
schools. . . .
They need a contractural obligation three or four months before the electionl
One more question, Mr. Ryan,I know the public wants to know becaue there ha~:
been a lot of controversy ..selling of the schools..if you decide to sell
them or lease them. Can you give us an idea of the legality in that.....be-
cause there is some conversation that you can't sell them within five years
after you close them. How much is truth and how much is fiction?
We have to go through this thing....the site committee..by law, in which we
talked earlier..in which we are having the hearing..:.Actually the decision
of when to sell and to whom to lease..the final decision, after that site
group has done their work..rests with the board of education. The Board
of Education can sell the sites or lease them. The Board has made the
decision a long time ago that they did not want to sell either of these two
elementary school sites at this particular time.. ...that they wanted to lease
them to the best possible leasor and we felt..There could be, as Alhambra
has faced, a change or reversal in the enrollment pattern. We just don't
feel that we are in a position at this point to eliminate those two sites
and we are very hopeful of being able to lease them.
If it is all right with the council I am going to ask the staff to get to-
gether and contact the school board and the city council as to picking a
night for a meeting....a joint meeting...one of the first three weeks in
Sep tember. .
Horstman: The first two.....
Gilb:
Papay:
Gilb:
Pap ay :
Gilb:
Saelid:
Gilb:
September 7th is what.....Labor Day? And you might change your meeting that
nigh to
No. Excuse me, Mr. Mayor, I don't want
be the earliest we might get together?
August, let's say.
to belabor the point..but what would
Could we do this at the end of
I don't know. I am going to be gone the third week in August.
What about the fourth week in August?
I don't think it is wise to advertise when
it is a very good practice. I think if we
then announce the date of the meeting..
The 27th through'the fl't
we will be gone.....I don't thin.
can establish a date for it..and
Fine with me. When are you going to be gone, Jeff ?
of September...?
Let's do that. Someone is liable to come up and steal my dog...my big dog.
Ny dog is big.
Horstman: One thing. If we could do it before school opened.....
..
-24-
7-28-81
I
Gilb:
What I was saying is let's see when we can put together a meeting..
When does school open? You are going to open the schools whether you
have our money or not.
Horstman: I know but I am leaving the next day.
Gilb:
After you get our money? Or after you.....ok. I think we should meet the
first two weeks in September sometime. We are back to that again. I am
running this meeting. And we will have it here or at your place?
Horstman: Hherever.
Gilb:
Papay:
Gilb:
Papay:
Gilb:
Papay:
Gilb:
Haltom:
We will be your guests. No. As long as it is our meeting and our decision
we will have it here again.....is that all right with the council? Ok?
Anything else?
Yes. Item 9.
Adjourned. No. Other matters. Consideration of joint council/board meeting.
We are saying.....on some kind of a regular basis. I don't know how the
council feels about this.
After you see us next time...yau might not want to see us again. I think we
ought to continue this type of dialogue but I really think that we have to
be .very careful. We don't want to run the schools and we don't want the
schools to run the city but we have to work very jointly in this thing and
we have to stay off of subjects that are in those lines. Ok.
it is certainly our desire to keep the jurisdictions.....
The thing is that sometimes if you ..for example, if you have a public meeting
and you get into things that are something else. I think we can work
jointly on all of these things if we keep this line open. And certainly the
staffs have done that quite readily. And I think it is the concensus of the
council that we continue these meetings as we go along ..on a periodic basis.....
Nor for me...
Horstman: Mr. Haltom. .....
Papay:
Gilb:
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
Thank you for coming. The meeting is adjourned.
-25-
7=28-81
.