HomeMy WebLinkAboutMAY 12,1992
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CITY COUNCIL PROCEEDINGS ARE TAPE RECORDED AND ON FILE IN THE OFFICE OF THE CITY
CLERK
M I NUT E S
CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF ARCADIA
ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING
(STUDY SESSION)
MAY 12, 1992
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The Arcadia City Council met in an Adjourned Regular Meeting,
Study Session, at 5:30 p. m., Tuesday, May 12, 1992 in the
Conference Room of the Council Chambers. The primary purpose
of this meeting to explore various matters of interest,
concern and clarification, and future plans and projects for
the City.
ROLL CALL
PRESENT:
Councilmen Ciraulo, Harbicht, Lojeski, Margett and
Fasching
None
ABSENT:
CLOSED
SESSION
At 5:35 p. m., the City Council ADJOURNED to a CLOSED SESSION
and at 5:55 p. m., RECONVENED the Adjourned Regular Meeting
Study Session.
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
No one responded to this opportunity to address the City
Council.
l.
NEW JOB
CLASS.-
MGE. CONSUL-
TANT & EMPL.
AGRMNT.
Consideration of this Agenda Item follows Agenda Item No.2.
2.
CITY CHARTER
REVISIONS -
SEPT. 15,
1992 ELECTION
/030 - 10
Consideration of City Charter amendments for the proposed
consolidated City Special Election and Arcadia School District
Bond Election proposed for September 15, 1992. Staff
submitted several non-controversial amendments to the City
Charter which will be described by the City Attorney in his
"Impartial Analysis" for the Sample Ballot as "house
cleaning", and certain provisions in the current City Charter
which are now unconstitutional. This to be submitted to
voters at the proposed election in September. A brief
discussion ensued on the following proposed City Charter
amendments:
I
1. Amend various sections of the City Charter to eliminate
all reference to specific gender.
2. Amend City Charter Section 401 to eliminate the two (2)
year residency standard for City Council eligibility.
3. Amend City Charter Section 1501 to reflect what is not
authorized by law regarding criminal penalties for
Municipal Code violations.
4. Amend Charter Section 707 to eliminate the preclusion
of any administrative officer or employee of the City
from holding elected public office in other communities.
5. Amend Section 804 of the City Charter to eliminate the
final paragraph applicable to Boards and Commissions.
This paragraph requires the affirmative vote of a
majority of the entire membershiD of such commission to
take any action.
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5/12/92
CLOSED
SESSION
l.
JOB CLASS.-
MGE.CONSULTANT
& EMPLOYMENT
AGRMT.
(Geo.Watts)
(APPROVED)
0:;2 ';20-10
CH
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3. :)330 -I{)
34:0140
6. Eliminate the last paragraph of Section 810 of the City
Charter concerning the Parks and Recreation Commission
which does not appear to have any meaning that is
currently relevant.
7. Amend Section 407 to delete the requirement that "at
any time a regular meeting falls on a holiday, such
meeting shall be held on the next business day", and
allow the Council the option as to when to reschedule
a meeting which falls on a holiday.
8. Delete sub-section (c) of Section 901 yoncerning civil
service. This section calls for a "Personnel
representative", and does not appear to be in
operation and its current operation is moot.
It was MOVED by Mayor Pro tem Ciraulo, seconded by Mayor
Fasching and CARRIED unanimously to DIRECT the City Attorney I
to prepare a resolution incorporating the proposed City
Charter Amendments on the September 15, 1992, ballot for the
proposed Consolidated City Special Election and School
District Bond Election, to be voted upon as one single item.
The City Attorney also reported that he is negotiating an
agreement with the School District that they shall pay for
every legally reimbursable cost to the City for the conduct
of the September election, available under the law. It was
noted by Council that the proposed election wouid be called
wholly for the benefit of the School Bond Issue. The City
Charter amendments are the vehicle with which to do so. The
appropriate resolution calling the election .will be on the
agenda for the City Council meeting of May 19, 1992.
At 6:10 p. m. the City Council ADJOURNED to a CLOSED SESSION,
and at 6:14 p. m. RECONVENED the Adjourned Regular Meeting,
Study Session.
The City Attorney announced that, "First of all we re-entered
a CLOSED SESSION under Government Code Section 54957 with
regard to Item 1 on the Agenda. I have handed out the agenda
packet material to the Council on that particular item.
Pursuant to the Brown Act, specifically Government Code
Section 54957, 54975.1, reflecting a 4-1 vote to change the
status of George Watts as City Manager to Management
Consultant, you have before you approval of the specific
agenda items. Specifically, establishment of a new job
classification for Management Consultant, and the appointment
of George J. Watts. The agreement has been modified, and that
modification has been agreed to by George Watts. So thE!
agreement as it stands will be modified to reflect the
following: That the title to the vehicle will pass to the
former City Manager now, and he will also receive a $3,000 car
allowance. So the agreement will be modified to reflect that.
With that, Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council, I recommend
that you approve the Agenda Items set forth in No. 1 with the
modification on the vehicle".
I
It was then MOVED by Mayor Pro tem Ciraulo, seconded by
Councilman Margett and CARRIED to APPROVE the new Job
Classification for Management Consultant; APPOINT George J.
Watts as Management Consultant; APPROVE the Employee Agreement
with George Watts as modified to pass the title of the
Manager's vehicle to the former City Manager and include a
$3,000 car allowance.
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED FOR THE FOLLOWING STUDY SESSION AGENDA
ITEMS:
Financial Report
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5/12/92
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34:0141
4.0730 _qO Prioritize Major Capital Facilities (Police Station, Library,
City Hall, Auditorium)
5. () <;"';0 - 60 Soundwa11s
6. () ~ ,.{(} Transportation System
7. 01.:) f) Expanding Commissions
8. ,,;"<;O-:':e;:> Relations with School District
9. 0 (1r:J~ 70 Council Member Expense Policy
10. C.1" 20 -'2.0 Architectural Review Boards for those areas of the City
that do not currently have them
11. 0 ~VO c:20 Lighting Districts
12. Ot. 'IU - to Undergrounding Utilities
13.
Possible ARA Issues
14.
Other Items
15,
Matters from Staff
16.
Matters from Elected Officials ;.:J ....;
17.
ADJOURNMENT
At 9:45 p.m. the City Council ADJOURNED to a CLOSED SESSION,
RECONVENED and ADJOURNED at 10:04 p.m. to 4:30 p.m., Monday,
May 18, 1992, for a CLOSED SESSION followed by a Budget Study
Session.
ATTEST:
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5/12/92
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EDITED
T RAN S C RIP T
(Insofar as decipherable)
RElATING TO
ARCADIA CITY COUNCIL
STUDY SESSION
MAY 12, 1992
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3.
FINANCIAL
REPORT
MAYOR
FASCHING
WOOLARD
ACTING CITY MGR.
FASCHING
WOOLARD
FASCHING
DALE
FINANCE DIR.
FASCHING
DALE
No. 3 is the financial report by Jim Dale. These are the executive
revenue and expenditure summaries for the year to date at the end of April,
which just came off the press today.
You received a whole packet of handouts that Jim has prepared, and we'll
go over some of these points with you.
have some I
Yeah, we've got this one. Obviously, there's a packet that relates to
this item, which is No. 3 on the agenda. And we have a couple otherl
handouts, one relating to a Code enforcement matter on Foothill, another
one dealing with. Code amendments that we want some direction from the
Council on, a couple of these under Matters from Staff.
Excuse me, Bill.
other loose items?
Let me back up one minute.
Excuse me, Jim.
Bill, did you
O.K. This is the revenue summary. Do you have the expense summary also?
Oh, we don't have the expense summary.
That will be out within the next couple of days.
The purpose of this was to let Jim...since we have all these other things
we're going to talk about, things we would like to figure out how we're
going to do in the future and everything, and I thought it a good time now
that Jim review the revenue and expense summaries and let us know exactly
where we are as of the end of April in our fiscal year, and then review
with us the other material that Jim has prepared with us. And any
questions you'd like to ask of Jim concerning our revenue for the year,
our projections, revenue he might have knowledge of for the next fiscal
year, and giving us an idea of the entire overview of our financial
situation. With that I'll turn the meeting over to you, Jim. I
O.K., then I'll start off just talking about some of the revenues. The
report that you've got was referred to as an executive summary. And what
these are really are major categories. So when we talk about taxes, I'll
just give you some ideas as we go through. We estimated, for this current
fiscal year, revenue from taxes...which, incidentally, reflect 67% of the
General Fund revenue, so you can get an idea of the importance of it. We
estimated $15,100,770, and we recently, in preparation for the budget,
went through and estimated, or projected, what we really felt we could get
this year, at this point. And we believe now we will get approximately
$14,890,000, which is off about $210,000. Let me just go through a few
of these. Under taxes, I can tell you some of them would be property
taxes, sales tax, franchise fees, cigarette tax, utility tax. So let me
just talk about a few of them. Property tax. ..and if you read some of the
material that the School District put together, that's our one big growth
number, I guess. Assessed values in the City of Arcadia have performed
very well. And this year, what we're projecting is we will receive around
$4,400,000. We originally estimated we'd receive $4,310,000, so it's up
somewhat from what our original projections were. I
Some of the other important ones...sales tax is certainly an important
one, it's our number one revenue source for the City. And the recession
has hit everybody, and sales tax is a big number that has been impacted.
But I think in the City of Arcadia we've been fortunate in that, I think,
probably the fact that we don't rely a lot on auto sales is one reason'l
We've got a sales tax base that probably doesn't get as hurt from recession
as some areas might. However, we estimated $5,450,000. We think we'll
get about $5,400,000. So it's $50,000 less than what we originally
projected. And for your information, next year we're projecting $5,400,000
again, so we really think we're going to be flat. And one of the reasons
for that is the situation with Foulger Ford.. .we think that's going to have
an impact on us. And what we do when we project these revenues a lot of
times is we take current economic conditions, and we're not trying to
second-guess whether this economy is going to get better or not. There's
1
COUNCIU1AN
LOJESKI
DALE
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I
COUNCIU1AN
MARGETT
DALE
COUNCIU1AN'
HARBICRT
DALE
I MARGETT
DALE
HARBICRT
DALE
I
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some indications that it will, there's some indications that on the West
Coast it's going to be a little slower recovery. But, at any rate, we
think our sales tax for next year is going to be rather flat.
Are you able to extract out...let's assume Foulger Ford went away, was not
here next year. Do you know exactly what they produce, sales-tax-dollar-
wise, to us the previous year?
We do. It's information that's confidential, and certainly we can give
you those figures. I don't know if we can talk about it in the meeting,
but, yes, we know what those figures are and we've taken that into account.
Another area that you'd be interested in, transient taxes, or bed
taxes...we estimated this year we'd get approximately $950,000; now it
looks like $825,000. The big reason for that drop is because of the
earthquake and the closure of the Motel 6. And next year's projections,
we figure about $850,000; however, that could go up slightly if Motel 6
got renovated and up and going sometime within the year. Utility tax is
a tax we can rely on for just regular increases, just by virtue of the
fact that they have rate increases, and ours is based on the fees that are
charged. We estimated this year $3,500,000. ..we figure that's what we're
going to get. We've estimated $3,700,000 for next year.
Is that just water, or is that all utility taxes?
All utilities except cable...we do not charge a utility tax for cable.
We don't have a utility tax on water.
No. You're right. We don't have a utility tax on water. We Do it through
our own books. We do what we call an "in lieu of" utility tax. So through
our own internal financial manipulation, if you will. We do charge the
fund a certain amount that's equivalent to utility tax.
We do.
Yes. I'll just mention one other, although as far as dollars it's not
much, but we budgeted $115,000 this year in cigarette tax and we're going
to get $60,000. The State last year, at the last minute, in the budget
balancing process, eliminated 50 percent and kept it. There's some
discussion that they might take the rest of it this year, but it's the
latest word we have they won't. So that's just another area.
Th~y didn't ask us.
No, They do a lot of things without asking us anymore, I guess. Property
transfer tax, we haven't done very well, either. We estimated $300,000,
it's coming in at around $225,000, and the reason for that, essentially,
it's just a slow real estate market. So that kind of gives you an idea.
Some of the other areas here, we're talking about licenses and permits...
we estimated $2,065,000, it looks like it's coming in at $1,980,000. The
reason for that, really, is a slowdown in the construction business and
that's impacted some of the fees that we charge for such things as plan
ch~ck fees, building permit fees.
Th~ next category, fines and penalties, $295,000 was estimated; $270,000
th~ proj ection right now. The State again did get into some of that money,
and the courts are keeping some of that money as, really, a balancing
mechanism for the County. Use of money and property, we did fairly well
there, although interest rates are down. We estimated initially $950,000.
We're figuring now we're going to come in at about $1,290,000. The primary
reason for that is even though interest rates are down, from time to time
when we feel it's appropriate we will sell certain investments and we will
collect what we refer to as premiums, and we've generated around $440,000
this year just because of the way the market has been going. We figure
neltt year our revenue from interest earnings is going to go down even
further because of the interest rates, and the latest word we get, there's
rumor that interest rates may go down even again in the near future, so
we project it out that way.
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MAYOR PRO TEM
CIRAULO
DALE
KINNAHAN
DIR. ECON. DEV.
DALE
FASCHING
KINNAHAN
LOJESKI
KINNAHAN
FASCHING
KINNAHAN
FASCHING
KINNAHAN
FASCHING
DALE
Revenue from other agencies...the main one there is motor vehicle in lieu
fees. That's one of the five major revenue sources in the City. And in
this current fiscal year we estimated initially $2,646,000; we think it's
coming in at $2,500,000. And the major reason for that is motor vehicle
in lieu fees are down. We get our estimates from the State, and with a
slowdown in new car sales, that impacts this fee because it's based on the
value of automobiles. The rest of them there, and this is all the General
Fund, they're pretty much...charges for current services, we estimated
$492,000, coming in at about $527,000. Library services, about what we
estimated. Other revenues, $350,000. ..we figure we're going to get about
$38,000. Included in this $350,000 was the sale of some property from the I
City to the Redevelopment Agency, and that didn't happen this year but we
expect it to happen next year, so it's in next year's budget.
That's a big change. . I mean, that's a big drop. I
It's really merely the fact that we didn't sell the land to the Redevelop-
ment Agency, they didn't purchase it this year. But they will be
purchasing it next year. I believe that's the property up on First Street.
Yes. It may even occur this year if we can get the title problem cleared
up.
Naturally the General Fund...the rest of the report here goes through the
other funds, and if you want I can go through them or I can just take some
questions, or however you'd like to handle it. Let me just go back to the
General Fund for one second. We initially estimated $22,912,000; we think
it's coming in at $22,395,000. And, you know, this is early on. We might
see some improvement in that. But that's a difference of about $500,000,
and that $500,000, I think, you can look back to the fact that we didn't
sell the land to the Redevelopment Agency...$300,000, you've got another
$50,000 in sales tax. So it's just a combination of different revenues
there that make up that $500,000.
Do we have a price on that property for next year when we sell it? I
Yes, sir. The Northwest Corner property is going to run around $185,000,
and we were looking at the Southwest Corner property...our original budget
estimates were around $60-80,000. But the appraisal has just come in at
$46,000 and the change. So we don't propose to sell the Southwest Corner
property yet, but we do propose to finish the Northwest Corner sale this
year if we can do it, which will add about $185,000 to the General Fund.
You're talking Second, not First.
Second. Second and...I'm sorry....
What is appraised at $46,OOO?
That's the island.
That much money for the island? That's a lot of money
You know the island we're talking about? O.K. And the
Is the remnant of Second Avenue. It's where the street comes around the I
small parcel that's owned by the City.
Oh, the island.
for the island.
Northwest?
O.K.
As I indicated, there's a lot of funds in here... you know, Federall
narcotics seizure funds.... I suppose one we might want to look at, if
you go back to page 6, Fund 302, our Capital Outlay Fund, that's where all
the money that we receive from the Track comes into this fund. We
estimated $2,400,000. You know, we're not sure still...this is the first
year that they started off-track betting between Hollywood Park and Santa
Anita. What we've got left yet is the balance of the year for the
Hollywood Park meet. Since this is the first year, we really don't have
a good handle on just how we're going to do that.
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CIRAULO
It still looks significantly lower, though.
DALE
Our receipts from the regular meet, just to give you a perspective, they're
down 30 percent...I looked at them today...they're down 30 percent over
last year. So that's kind of the difference, so what we would hope that
we would make up a certain amount. But included in this, I think you
ought to consider, is the fact that this money, aside from providing money
for Capital Outlay and what have you, does pay for traffic control. And
traffic control, I think Neal could tell you, that it's down considerably,
too. And in next year's budget I think we've budgeted 22 percent less
than this year. So we're going to have a savings there that will also add
into this figure.
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FASCHING
Well, this 70.1 on this tax from Santa Anita, since that meet that is
currently going on was not into ITW last year, so we don't know what that's
going to produce....
'OAL'
That's the problem with that this year.
FASCHING
That could produce a lot of money that could bring us up to....
DALE
Well, we did have a short meet over there, and I don't know how many days
it lasted. We generated....
FASCHING
It's about 20 days.
DALE
How many days?
FASCHING
I think their short meet is about 20 days.
DALE
They generated $120,000.
FASCHING
This meet is 65 days.
I DALE
And what we're looking for is to June 30, so whatever we've got left.
When we estimated $2,400,000 this was before that bill was even passed,
so that's about what we were getting in past years. So the Track...and
I've talked to a number of people who, they assure me, you're going to
come out all right, but I'm not convinced that that's true.
FASCHING
The end of May will tell you pretty much. That would give you a full 30
days on that meet, ITW.
DALE
Right. And we haven't gotten any revenue from the Track as yet, because
it was closed down because of the riots, so this is the first week...we'll
get our first revenue this coming week. And we even think, because of the
riots, we might see more betting right over here at Hollywood Park.
HARBICHT
Well, the other thing is that Inner Track Wagering didn't start until four
or five months into our fiscal year"did it?
DALE
True, but I think it took all of the Oak Tree...I think it was open the
enti~e period that we had Oak Tree.
I AA<B"~
Yeah, but what I'm saying is we had the negative effects of Inner Track
Wage~ing for both Oak Tree and the Santa Anita meets, but you didn't have
the positive effects where we would have picked up revenue down at other
tracks during that first four months of our fiscal year...we didn't pick
up any revenue. So we're not going to have a full year now, so....
I FASCHING
That's right. We don't get any revenue off of Inner Track when they send
thei~ signal out, only when they take the signal in.
HARBICHT
What I'm saying is that there was not betting at Santa Anita for....
FASCHING
That's true. Only that little short meet in December at Hollywood Park.
HARBICHT
Yeah,
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FASCHING
That's the only experience we had. Other than Del Mar, which we had always
had that. So I think after we get a couple of weeks of Hollywood, we could
get a feel for how much per week and then multiply it by the number of
weeks, and it will tell us pretty much how we're going to come out.
DALE
Sure. Well, those are the main ones. And I can certainly try to answer
any questions you might have on some of the other funds. And if there's
not any questions there, then we will go to this other little.... What
I put together here, and I thought it was important, and I guess we
recognize that this is the first meeting in probably a series of meetings,
and we know we'll get into a lot more of this during the budget season and
during the balance of the year. But what I wanted to do is to kind of go I
OVer with you just briefly, and open it up for questions. .
But the first sheet I gave you is this sheet that actually is in next
year's budget. And I only put it in there because it's...not that we're ,.
talking about the budget, per se, but it was a way to start off and have
a discussion about the various funds and what the funds are used for and
certain restrictions. And if you'll look on the first column you'll see
that we have estimated fund balance of...that bottom line...$43,OOO,000. I
And what I did, and for no particular reason, but on my charts that are
attached to this I took the last column, which is the estimated fund
balance at six thirty ninety three [6-30-931]. There's no reason why I
took one or the other, but I just selected that one.
And what I want to do.is just kind of go through...I gave you a chart here
that's just kind of a pie chart and gives you some breakdown of those
funds that we identify as restricted funds that can be only used for
certain types of expenditures, either by law or by City ordinance; those
that are designated for certain purposes; and those that are undesignated
and virtually could be used for anything. And then attached to that I
gave you just, like, one-paragraph descriptions of the various funds, and
they're in the same order as the charts, so that if you had any questions
you could look at them. And what I wanted to do is just take a few minutes
and go through a few of them.
when you look at the restricted funds...and I'll just touch on a couple I
of them. .The first one is narcotics seizure funds, and these funds are
restricted for equipment and manpower costs for narcotics enforcement
related activities. So it's not funds that we can use for some other
purpose. .. they have to be related to that. Going down there... and I
think you probably are familiar with most of this... the gas tax fund,
there's restrictions on that money and those are for street maintenance
and construction costs, and those are closely audited by the State of
California. We have our water fund, which are restricted for water fund
operations and infrastructure of the water fund. We have a sewer system
fund, which is essentially the same thing, restricted for major construc-
tion of the sewer lines and operations. Proposition A and C are funds
that are restricted for transit-related kinds of operations. So all those
funds over there in that first column, nearly $15,000,000 worth, are
restricted for a number of purposes, and they are explained here in this
brief description of the funds.
What I wanted to do, kind of, is talk more about the designated and the
undesignated. So if we look at. .. the first one there is the medical-dental I
insurance fund. And if you wanted to follow that on the description, that
would be on page 3 and it's titled "Designated Funds." We are self insured
for our medical insurance program.. .we actually have two programs--one is
an HMO through Kaiser, and the other one is a self-insured program. And
what they have recommended to us, and that's our consultants for our
medical plan, is that we retain a reserve equal to about four months' worth I
of claims. And so, looking at next year's, we estimate claims of
$l,700,OOO...four months' claims would be equal to about $567,000. So
that's why we retain that kind of a reserve there. The same thing goes
for the Workers Compensation liability policy. We need to maintain certain
reserves to cover our self-insured portion. The emergency reserve is a
reserve that is simply that...it's just for emergencies. If the Council
elected to utilize those monies. . . it's something that we set aside a number
of years ago. I think the idea was it was for potential emergencies such
as an earthquake or something like that. There is no reason to retain that
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other than for those purposes. The equipment service fund, the $198,000,
what we have is what we call an internal goverrunent fund, and they provide
the maintenance for all of our vehicles. And that fund generates revenue
by charging all the various departments and all the various funds, and they
provide...that $198,000 provides them a reserve so that if we had a major
problem with, say, a fire truck or something, we'd have some money to go
to in the event we needed to. appropriate monies for some type of an
accident.
J
The equipment replacement fund is the fund that I think is talked about
a lot. We're estimating a fund balance of $9,547,000 at the end of the
year. And I can just tell you just from information that I know of, I
think at one time the goal was to try to establish a fund where interest
earnings would pay...would generate enough interest earnings to pay for
all acquisitions. And I think we realized over time that that probably
wasn't a realizable goal. In fact, if you look at it right now, it's my
estimate that we'd have to have nearly $14,000,000 in there. $14,000,000
would generate at today's interest rate about $910,000, and that's about
what we average in purchases over a five-year period, when we did our
five-year projection. There is a year, and I'll just tell you, I think
the fourth year out we're buying a large fire truck for $550,000, so it
jumps way up in that year. Generally, it averages about $900,000 a year.
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CIRAULO
But, Jim, in long term, those interest rates are bound to go up, so it
would behoove us to maintain that so that we could get up to that goal.
HARBICHT
Right. I don't think that's unattainable...it may be unattainable with
today's interest rates, but four or five years ago we would have drawn a
real close bead on this.
DALE
Right now, just to give you an idea, interest earnings pays...when we look
at what we acquire in a year, about 60 percent of the costs, and then what
we do in addition to the interest earnings we have...and when you see the
budget you'll see.. .we do a transfer in on a regular annual basis of so
much money into the equipment replacement fund...$350,OOO for next year,
and we projected $400,000 for the following year, $450,000. It's just
another source of revenue into that fund, and between the two that pays
for all of our equipment plus it builds a little more on that fund balance
until out in the fifth year, I think, we're up around $lO,OOO,OOO-plus,
something on that order. And again, when we do this five-year projection,
we project on today's interest' rates...we're not trying to second-guess
where interest rates are going down the line; but undoubtedly, they're
going to change considerably. A couple other things that, it's my
understanding from talking to people, this fund was thought of at one time
to be a resource available to loan money to the Redevelopment Agency in
the event that they needed additional money for certain proj ects. And the
other thought was it was an additional reserve in the event of a
catastrophic event in the City, that we would have money to just go in and
write a check.
I
MARGETT
You're talking about the equipment replacement fund?
DALE
That's correct. So at any rate, that figure of $9,000,000, that's the
purpose and that's the use of it, and that's the way we kind of approached
it. Going back up to the undesignated and what this really means is that
these funds...there is no designation for these funds. They can be used
for any purpose that the Council deems appropriate. The General Fund,
almost $5,326,000. . . I have talked to other finance directors and what have
you, and it's sort of an arbitrary figure. But what a lot of people
estimate is that the General Fund, ideally, should have a minimum of 20
percent of its annual appropriations. Twenty percent of our next year's
appropriation would be $4,661,000. So, we're not very far off from that.
And what that is there for, in the event that a major thing should...in
future years if the economy doesn't improve I think we're going to have
to dip into the reserves...I think it's a potential. So it's things like
that or other emergencies that come up.
I
I
HARBICHT
Doesn't it also provide working capital?
6
DALE
CIRAULO
DALE
HARBICHT
WOOLARD
HARBICHT
CIRAULO
DALE
CIRAULO
4.
MAJOR CAPITAL
FACILITIES
(Priority List)
FASCHING
No, because actually our revenues provide the working capital during the
course of the year. It might in certain cases...you're right...there are
months where actually we run a deficit. To give you an example, our
property taxes comes in the first time, I think, in April, and then we
don't get any prop...tax for a long time. So we go up and down as far as
revenue coming in. I also should remind you that if the City should
finalize anything with the mall, that any financial assistance the City
might give would more than likely come out of that fund, although it
wouldn't have to, it could come out of either the Facility Construction
or the Capital Outlay. But it would somehow come out of, probably, that
$10,000,000 total.
The next one is Capital Outlay Fund...that's really what it's for, it'sll
for capital outlay. Those funds could be used to build buildings or...in
the next fiscal year what it's essentially used for is to buy major pieces
of brand new equipment. We talked about the equipment replacement fun,
and that's what it's for, replacement of existing equipment. The Capita
Outlay Fund is there for either capital improvements or major pieces 0
equipment that we purchase. And then, finally, the facility constructio
fund was there just for that purpose, it was there to accumulate funds. .
We talked about for fire stations, for police facility, or for any other
infrastructure in the City. And, incidentally, this fund balance that we
show here is at the end of next fiscal year, which would have already
taken into account the fire station at around $2,700,000.
That's already deducted from this balance as stated?
That's correct. So this would be what's left over after that. And in
the five-year plan, the only thing that we've gotten planned...and that
would be for, I think, the following year, if I'm not mistaken, was
demolition of the Armory site. And that was not a very large figure in
the budget.. .$157,000, I think. So that kind of gives you an idea. And
all those funds put together, then, equals $40,000,000. And that kind of
gives you an idea of where you can look to find certain monies for
infrastructure, and give you some options anyway. We've also added a
sheet in here...and we can go through it if you want or maybe we can evenll
have Pete...Pete Kinnahan generated this, and it's really on the
Redevelopment Agency and possible assistance from the Agency. This might
be a subject that we want to talk about down the line somewhere, but we
felt we'd give you this information to at least get you thinking along
those lines and consider such an option.
I wonder if we want to hold off on the Agency discussion, we might want
to do that (inaudible).
The whole Agency thing can even be set for a separate meeting. It's pretty
involved and complicated. We want to get something to you that indicated
the potential for utilizing....
It's a good report, Jim.
It is a good report.
By the way, when we start into the budget process, I guess, next Monday,
we will certainly start talking about revenues in a little more detail and I
where we think they're going and what have you, and be able to answer any
questions.
Very good. Thank you.
II
O.K., thank you, Jim. It is a good report. I think that, before we get
to our next item, here, No. 4...this study session as we all wanted to
have here was to develop our priorities and projects, and things we want
to do in the future. As I sit here and listen to some comments, and since
7
I
some of the things that I read and hear, I think that I would like the
Council to know my feelings on two things before we go into our discussion
on these things. That is, that in presenting these, the financial figure
of the City and the source of revenues that would be available to do some
of the things we will discuss here' tonight in the future, and some of'the
comments that were made last night at the meeting at the School District
relative to their bond issue where they certainly don't want us talking
any bond issues while they're talking a bond issue. And I assured those
people that we're not going to do anything to jeopardize or complicate
their election for bonds for the schools. Now, I fully felt that anything
in the future on the part of the Councilor future Council actions relative
to the infrastructure and development of some of the things that need
attention in the City, that it would be probably several years before we
would even be talking bonds or that type of thing, which was my own
conjecture. But in a report such as this to us, outlining to a great
extent what money is available to do capital improvement programs, I
certainly don't want the impression given that this new Council is going
to be mad-hat spenders or we're looking to raid the City coffers to do a
lot of projects or we have that in mind. I think we are as concerned with
finding sources of revenue to offset things that we would propose to do
in the future before anything else. Maybe some big items would require,
in the future, a consideration of other means. But we have many areas
here in the City to look forward to additional revenue sources...being the
redevelopment land that we have sitting idly by that hasn't moved or
anything done to in years. And the prospect now in the future, if this
recession is leveling off a little bit, and with maybe a little more
aggressive approach and seeking out people to come in and develop this
land to increase our tax increments, which would give us income. We look
forward to the mall expansion and the projections that we've seen, and I
think it's no secret to estimate that if, when completed, and if completed,
that could be a million-dollar-a-year source to this City in additional
sales tax revenue. Establishment of upgrading our existing business
districts to get more businesses to come into the City, while not meaning
to increase density or that, but t~e general improvement of the existing
business districts, such as Huntington Drive and in some cases even Baldwin
Avenue in lower Arcadia. Other things that we can develop for additional
revenues...perhaps some day we can make a deal with the Forest Service to
move out of there and that land could be available for some type of
development that would mean revenue to the City. Foulger Ford is going
to move, we're going to lose the sales tax on that, but that property can
be developed to possibly create a larger sales tax for us. So the point
I'm trying to make, my point, to my Council and to you guys is that while
we have ambitious programs, perhaps, that we're going to try and get
accomplished, at the same time I'm sure all of us are going to be looking
to find increased sources of revenue that does not mean taxation nor
raiding the City funds to do these projects, that we can pay our way as
we go. However, I would say realistically, too, as pointed out by Jim
Dale, there is some money that is available for projects right now that
we could do without altering our financial soundness of the City. And
we're looking at the definite possibility of improving the Library and
also the possibility of an auditorium. So, I wanted, before we get into
this wish list and all these big money-ticket items we're going to be
talking about and involves spending money, revenue income sources and
development of that is as much on my mind as I'm sure it is on yours when
we talk about spending money. So with that, we'll go to the No.4 item
here on the prioritized major capital facilities, the big bucks item, and
we'll throw that out. Who'd like to go first on that? Bob?
I
HARBICHT
Four things are listed there as possibilities. There's a couple of other
things that are on this list which I see as big bucks items, or at least
potentially big bucks items, and that's sound walls and under grounding
utilities. So I guess some of it is going to depend on our discussions
of those two items. But my own priorities would be that I separate these
things into things that I believe that we can do and we can pay for on a
pay-as-you-go basis, and things that I think we're going to have to borrow
money to do. So, I think the Library and the auditorium are both things
that we can pay as we' go, and so in my mind those have a very high
priority, something I'd like to see us moving on immediately.
MARGETT
Bob, excuse me, but define pay-as-you-go.
8
HARBICHT
We have the funds available.
FASCHING
Well, that's the immediate money, right, Bob?
HARBICHT
We have the funds available to write a check.
MARGETT
In other words, we don't have other funds sequentially coming in to be
able to float the thing over a period of time.
FASCHING
Well, I'm just thinking this, we wouldn't have to float over a period of
time. It's like this fire station that we're building. We're going to
write a check for that. I believe we can refurbish the Library and WE
could build that auditorium, we could write checks for those. So I place
a very high priority on those.
Might I add one little thought, there? And I don't know how we're gOit
to follow the format on this, but I think...just if we have thoughts 0
what somebody's talking about...that's all right?
Yeah, I'm assuming we're just exchanging ideas....
HARBICHT
HARBICHT
FASCHING
Yeah, right. I agree with Bob. In talking to the Finance Director, that
we could actually, without disrupting the financial condition of the City
nor the soundness of its financial condition, we could conceivably write
a check for up to $10,000,000 for projects that we would consider immediate
or want to get on without other sources of revenue.
CIRAULO
Well, our initial thought of what the auditorium would cost is not
necessarily the right figure, because the School District has not gotten
back to us with what they would like to see in terms of an auditorium.
As a matter of fact, from what I understand, they may want to put that on
a temporary hold situation for a while.
FASCHING
They have. They've already done it. They don't want to talk about until
after the bonds.
LOJESKI
They don't want to confuse anything for the prospective voters.
CIRAULO
And then when the vote is over, when the election is over, and it goes in
their favor and we end up talking about it again, we'll have to see what
they come back to us with. So, perhaps writing a check won't be quite as
easy if they're asking for something larger than what we initially
proposed.
HARBICHT
If it...I guess as I expressed to them and to you at the last meeting...if
they decided that the only thing that was going to meet their needs was
something that's up in the $6-10,000,000 range, then my support for this
idea evaporates. Either we do it for something in the area of around
$3,000,000 or so--and we don't do that unless it's going to meet their
needs--or then it becomes a much, much lower priority for me.
LOJESKI
In other words, we don't really have a figure yet on what their exact
needs are.
CIRAULO
That's right, we don't. I
And the second thing we don't have is, if we knew what the need was we
could get a better handle on the cost estimation.
LOJESKI
FASCHING
True.
But they're not going to tell us until September.
HARBICHT
Well, I don't know why the bond issue should preclude them from doing at
least some preliminary estimates and getting them to us....
LOJESKI
I think there will be some preliminary things. I think a big, firm push
to "Let's really get this thing going, let's fast track this thing."
FASCHING
Well, I think it takes the Council to make it perfectly clear that the
School District is not involved in the finances of an auditorium...it's
strictly a City idea. But they've already told me they've had half a
9
dozen calls from people thinking that, nOh, you're going to buy an
auditorium now out of your bonds."
CIRAULO
Yeah, so they really want to just put this on the back burner.
HARBICHT
I guess, to continue...I would not feel comfortable writing a check for
$10,000,000.
FASCHINC
I didn't say that we could.
'lARBICHT
O.K. We could, but I don't think it would be advisable. A police
building, my estimate is we're probably talking somewhere in the $15-
18,000,000 range, based on figures that have been bandied about for the
last couple of years; plus Monrovia, who is going for $12,000,000 for
theirs. ..we're 50 percent larger than Monrovia, I assume we'd need a 50
percent larger facility. So, somewhere up there in the mid to high teens.
That to me means we'd have to borrow money to build it. So that puts it
at a lower priority, although it's not something that I want to wait on,
and I would be willing to support borrowing money to build that. The very
lowest priority to me is City Hall, which, again, I think we would have
to borrow money to build, and it's so far below the police building in my
assessment of our needs that it has no priority.
,
MARGETT
Bob, when you say borrow, what do you mean by borrow? Does that mean a
funded debt deal, or do you go out and....
HARBICHT
A bond issue.
MARGETT
A bond issue, funded debt. O.K. Well, you're not going to go out to the
community for a $3,000,000 funded debt, though.
HARBICHT
No, I'm talking about the $15,000,000.
FASCHING
Well, we can borrow against the revenue sources, can we not? Bob? Without
going to a bond issue? I mean, to the voters. ..1 mean you're not talking
about...you're talking revenue bonds.
MARCETT
FASCHING
MARGETT
CIRAULO
DALE
HARBICHT
FASCHING
I CIRAULO
FASCHING
No, there's no revenue coming in.
Well, if you can offset it with projected revenue, you can borrow against
revenue bonds, can you not?
No, that's not...I think revenue bonds is bonds....
Jim, can we?
I think that's (inaudible)...I think you have to go out for a vote on it.
We're just talking concepts anyway, I mean, the ins and outs of how we'd
finance this.
Well, let me ask about bonds.
would be paid for with revenue
talking about.
Can we go out for a vote on bonds that
rather than assessments, that's what I'm
Sure.
Yeah. So it's a difference_to the voter. ..he's not being assessed. We're
saying we're going to have revenue to pay the bonds, so we want your
permission to borrow the money so we can spend it now and make the
improvements. Do you have anything else, Bob?
HARBICHT
No, no. That's it. I mean, that's just my comments on these things, in
terms of my priorities.
LOJESKI
My priority is, obviously, to see the completion of the two things that
are on line right now...which I'm assuming are on line. One being Fire
Station 2, and the other situation being the Library. I'm a little foggy
and hazy as to what's currently going on at the Library and what our
financial outlay is going to be-. Is it a total 100 percent contribution
10
on our part, or are we getting any dollars or moneys from other sources,
you know, those sorts of things. But I think those are the key prioriti-
es.
FASCHING
Can I answer that on the Library, or do you want me to?
LOJESKI
Please.
FASCHING
Currently on the Library we have an architect on the Planning Commission,
Bob Daggett.. .you know Bob...who has volunteered his time and plans, and
has submitted to the Librarian the tentative plans for additions and
upgrading and modernization of this Library, which includes I think an
additional 15,000 square feet. The Librarian has those plans, and he
is...Bob has seen them....
HARBICHT
Actually, I haven't. I keep intending to go down there, but I haven']
George and I met with him and asked him to do this.
Well, see, where I get confused is Jim Dale tells me that we've alread
got a certain amount of money.set aside because the one fund already showed "
that money extracted. Are we using that as just a hypothetical assumption
of a budget, or are we going to commit up to that much....
LOJESKI
HARBICHT
We've already committed for the Fire Station.
FASCHING
Yeah, that's done. The Library hasn't even come up yet. But in the
Library, just tentatively, we're probably looking at an expenditure in the
area of between $3 1/2-4,000,000.
CIRAULO
How extensive is that renovation? Do we get a report on that so we can
see... .
FASCHING
Oh, yeah. Well, it hasn't been brought to us yet because they haven't
finished with the Librarian.. .does everything flow, does this work out
with you, and is it satisfactory in your estimation. When he and Daggett
work that out, then it will come to the Council as a presentation up on
the wall with all the plans and show you what's involved, and then we go
from there. But that's.. .just to give you an idea of the cost in-
volved.. .that's what we're looking at.
LOJESKI
Does the Library Board get involved at all with this situation?
FASCHING
They see the plans, they go over it with the Librarian, yeah.
MARGETT
George, are there going to be any additions to the Library...I mean, more
square footage?
FASCHING
Four additions, yeah. On all four corners.
MARGETT
Additional four...15,OOO square feet.
FASCHING
It will make all new fixtures inside, new roof. ..it will be a complete
library that should last for 25 years.
CIRAULO
O.K., assuming, for the sake of discussion, we're talking in terms of
$3 1/2-4,000,000 for the Library at this point, that presents another
financial problem for that at this time, is that right?
I
FASCHING
Well, that's something we have to consider when we get to it. But we
don't.. . assuming that we...let's just assume like we're back to where we
Were. Let's assume that we might have $10,000,000 available, not meaning
that we're going to spend it. But this is one of the items that would be
considered in that expenditure as well as an auditorium, and those are
the.. . considering those low-ticket items. Right, Bob? Isn't that right?
HARBICHT
Yeah.
LOJESKI
All right, let me continue on if I may. The Fire Station, it's my
understanding, is still hinging somewhat on potential mall expansion.
11
FASCHING
WOOLARD
MARGETT
LOJESKI
tom
LOJESKI
MARGETT
HARBICHT
LOJESKI
FASCHING
LOJESKI
HARBICHT
LOJESKI
FASCHING
I
GARDNER
FIRE CHIEF
FASCHING
No. It's underway.
The architect is working on the working drawings for it and the Fire
Station is going to go ahead, I think, whether or not the marl goes ahead.
You know, I think, Dennis, where you're coming from is that there's....
Well, I'm saying that because at the meeting that you missed, Bob, last
week, I asked that specific question. I mean, after...because we started
to umbrella this whole thing in there. And there was a little glitch and
I was told that's somewhat true. One thing does somewhat hinge...I mean,
not totally...because there's a situation with the transference of land.
I'm assuming that the expansion is going to go through and everything, so
I don't want to embellish that. But that's where the situation is sitting.
Yeah, well, I was exposed to the same facts that you were, I'm sure. My
understanding is that the tenant who has the land lease is negotiating
wi th the City, and part of the deal is to transfer a portion of that corner
property to the City for the...on a no-charge basis as I recall, Bill,
isn't that it...to build a station. And it's kind of a....
He's actually negotiating with Santa Anita, is he not, and not the City
of Arcadia?
But it's not a deal breaker...is it?
I think that what we could say is that technically it's not an absolute
done deal. But this is a detail that is very unlikely to cause problems.
Even if the whole mall expansion fell apart, that fire station is 99
percent deal.
All right. Assuming that, those become my two priorities. The problem
in the past that I've seen was there was never a priority of what our
facilities were.. . the condition that they really were. And so, hypotheti-
cally, what may follow next, what may not follow next... what are the
conditions of, for example, Fire Station 3, Fire Station l? We've heard
about the Police Station and the need for maybe a new station, expanding
the current station. We've talked about and heard the possibilities and
eventuality of us taking over the Armory site.
That's for police.
Yell, is it or isn't it?
We own the Armory site.
O.K., but to me that's prioritizing something. Rather than all of a sudden
standing back with a series of darts and having a dart board, throwing and
saying, well, let's in the next three years I think we'll do this.
Could I tell you about Fire. Station 1 and 2. According to...because this
came up when we got with the previous Council on the approval of three...
concerns that, what are we looking at with one and two? Three is going
to be state-of-the-art, and one and two are not going to be the same state-
of-the-art as far as facilities from a firefighters standpoint as one and
two. So this was something that we discussed with Jerry, and Jerry...we
came to the conclusion that with some future modifications only, interior
wise, and that with one and two, that they would be right comparable with
what you would want, right? There was no major expansion of those
facilities.
Stations 1 and 3. Station 3 is the oldest, it was built in 1948, so it's
44,45 years old and it does need some.... The site is large enough, the
station is large enough, it needs some renovation and remodeling as any
old house would. It needs a new kitchen, it needs maybe to expand the day
room a little bit, and redo the office area, 'and that type of thing, to
bring it up to today's standards.
But there's no teardowns?
12
LOJESKI
O.K., but, if you're going to prioritize something, in my mind I want to
know what's the worst facility, because that's going to get first priority
to me.
FASCHING
Oh, to me it's the City Hall.
CIRAULO
Police facility.
LOJESKI
See, I don't know. We talk about a needs assessment and cost estimates
and things like that. I'll give you an example. The auditorium is the
example, O.K. Now, I've heard banter around this table, $12-14,000,000
cost estimates to do an auditorium eight, ten years ago. That's really
a fallacy, because there was never the availability of even squeezing that
situation down to saying, well, what is workable, what really is realistic?
That's all it was, was a wish list Taj Mahal. Well, I'm sure if I turned
around to the Police Chief and I said, "O.K., Chief, give me an estimat
of what you would like to see in a police station," I mean, he'll come u
with all the bells, whistles, frills, and everything else. Now, is tha
what we need, not realistically. And if I'm evaluating those types 0
things with all the bells and whistles and not truly what we are looking .
at and what would be workable and what would be affordable, then that
prioritized list can go haywire.
FASCHING
O.K., then, perhaps what we should do is. ..when you talk of the police
station, then you're talking big bucks. ..that's a big-bucks item. You
talk City Hall, that's big bucks. You talk Civic Center, that's big bucks.
My feeling is when we do the police station--and the police station, yes,
should be done--then we should really put our heads together and try and
put it into a civic center redevelopment program where we would do the
police station and the City Hall at the same time. The City Hall will not
suffice for another 10 years, and neither will the police station,
LOJESKI
See, that is a situation I would rather not see us get into, is the way
this building became a necessity. O.K., all of a sudden now, because of
the age of this building, being the Council Chambers, anything you do with
the rest of this site has to revolve around this. This may not be the
best location. And, you know, I throw that into the conversation of the
Armory site, if the Armory site is going to become a 'police station. I
want to be assured that we're not tying ourselves into a position that
it's going to preclude us from seeing down the road. It may take 15 to
20 to 25 years down the road. It's not going to preclude us from not
doing other things with the site here....
CIRAULO
Can't we develop an overall architectural plan including all of the City
Hall and the police facility and everything in this location, not
necessarily developing the whole thing at one time, but have an overall
plan so that if we can only afford the police facility for a while, it
still will be done in concert with the idea that down the road a City Hall
will fit in very nicely with it, It won't be piecemeal allover the place;
it will be all part of an overall strategy. But if you can only do part
of it at one time, that's fine. But it still fits in with what eventually
is going to be done.
MARGETT
That's the only way to do it as far as I'm concerned. I
That's what, actually, Wendell Mounce did for the City several years back.
At that time, though, the consideration was with and without an auditorium
and with and without the Armory property. But that type of plan was
prepared for....
WOOlARD
CIRAULO
Well, now we have the Armory property and I think we've all agreed that
an auditorium is going to be....
LOJESKI
But, Bill, (inaudible) of that plan was never completed, O.K. In other
words, it got to a point and then it went sour, it went haywire, for
whatever reason.
WOOlARD
I think a realization that the whole thing was unaffordable....
13
LOJESKI
Yeah, if you looked at it totally as one project, sure. But, again, if
you look at it as maybe 30 years down the road conceptually this is what's
going to happen, but you don't have to do it all at once.. . the worst first.
We have the police station, you know, the worst case scenario, then start
there.
FASCHING
Can we cut that down to maybe 15 years?
HARBICHT
You know, I think that we're getting bogged down in details. I mean,
we're trying to figure out the color of the bricks. Shouldn't we be just
talking conceptually. I mean, I was just talking in terms, these are my
priori ties. I didn't try to put time frames on them or talk about how many
people it was going to seat. It's just, these are the things I'd like to
see. And I'm interested in what the rest of you would like to see, your
priorities, because somebody else may say, "Everything else is behind the
police building, that's the number one priority." And if that's the
consensus of the Council, it pretty much changes all of our other
discussions.
I
FASCHING
Well, let's go back to this one item, here. Let's go back to big-ticket
items, small-ticket items. We're talking Library, we're talking
auditorium, the fire station is funded, anything that came up on the other
two fire stations in the future we could probably handle as small-ticket
items. O.K., now we come down to the big-ticket item, and we're sitting
right in the middle of the big-ticket item. We're sitting in the Civic
Center. O.K., now we're saying scheduling and itemizing and when. But
on this I think the Civic Center is something that we should come up with
a development plan and scheduling, and then know what we're looking at and
how it will flow. The other things we can handle, kind of on the side,
while that's being developed, I would think. Because we can handle those
on an individual basis. But when we get into the development or
redevelopment of the Civic Center, that's a big project. And maybe one
entity will have to come before the other. That's true, we can't do them
both. But first of all, we need a plan for the Civic Center, and we can
handle these other ticket items on an individual basis I would fully hope.
CIRAULO
My feeling is that when we do come up with a plan for the Civic Center,
that the first item on my important list would be the police facility,
above everything else.
HARBICHT
Are you in agreement, though, that the small-ticket items are something
that are handled separate?
CIRAULO
That's separate. Absolutely.
small-ticket items.
The Library being the first one of the
FASCHING
But we don't have to agree here tonight that the police station takes
priority over the City Hall. What we want is a development plan....
CIRAULO
Well, but we were talking about finding out where all of us stand on these
things.
I FASCHING
CIRAULO
MARGETT
Well, yeah, I know. But what we need first of all is a ~evelopment plan
for the Civic Center.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Conceptual.
FASCHING
Yeah. And that's a big-ticket item. All right, then we find out where
we prioritize what building....
CIRAULO
What building of that whole plan is most important.
LOJESKI
I cannot prioritize at this time the auditorium because I don't have those
two answers...I don't know size and I don't know cost.
FASCHING
I don't think we have to.
14
LOJESKI
Well, I'm just sharing that with you, O.K. And personally, my priorities
are going to be the Library and Fire Station 2.
FASCHING
Well, Fire Station 2 you can forget about, that's done.
LOJESKI
Seeing those to completion.
FASCHING
O. K., the Library, that will probably come up. The Library will 'be coming
up because we're going to look at costs on the Library and what we can do
with the Library before we get the information back from the School
District on the auditorium. But, I think we come back to the same thing.
Those cannot...I don't think we have to even put them all in a priority
list at this point. The Civic Center, we can say let's get a conceptual
plan and a development plan on the C~vic Center. And in the meantime,
then, we'll go and we'll talk about these other individual items, even
throwing in sound walls, as individual items that can be handled if WI
approve handling them.
The sound walls are a big-ticket item. '
HARBICHT
MARCETT
Depends on how you handle them.
FASCHING
Well, isn't that new block not that big a ticket?
HARBICHT
It's not approved yet.
FASCHING
Well, what's the prospects of it being approved?
HARBICHT
It seems to me it's about 80% of the cost of the way you're doing it now.
So it's not quite as big, but it's still a big-ticket item.
MARGETT
Well, Mr. Mayor, could we stay with Item 4, rather than digress into 5 and
6 and the rest of them. You know, I think that it is important, before
the political aspect of the community, the five of us, here, start calling
out these things... and we will make that judgment. . . but I think that staff
has got to have their input, I really do.
FASCHING
What input?
MARGETT
With regards to what the priorities are with respect to the buildings.
We're saying, well, we absolutely...the City Hall is second to the police
station. It may not be. Maybe it should be number one, I don't know.
But I think that we're sitting back here making judgments, or considering
judgments, on the thing from a political aspect, and we're not working in
City Hall, we're not working in the Fire Station.
FASCHING
You're right, Bob. But what I'm saying is that we don't have to, maybe,
get to that point. Why don't we talk about if we can agree on getting a
conceptual plan for the development of our Civic Center, and ask Mr.
Woolard how we would progress in doing that, so that we would say, here's
the land we have, here's where things would fit in conjunction with the
existing building that we're sitting in which will not move, and utilize
somebody such as Daggett, who is not going to give us a bill. He'd love
to tell us his thoughts on it, and maybe as he has on the Library, but Mr'l
Woolard has to tell us....
Get some renderings or sketches.
MARGETT
FASCHING
Yeah, right. Renderings and sketches.
WOOLARD
What we can do is go back to where Mounce left off. There was several
alternative conceptual plans for the Civic Center area. It's a good place
to start, kind of give you some idea of the proportions of the building....
CIRAULO
Can we revitalize that idea and then go from there...use that as a jumping
oU point?
WOOLARD
I think it's a jumping off point, at least to start with.
FASCHING
Y~ah, it is a jumping off point.
15
WOOLARD
Obvio\lsly, the game has changed a little bit, because we do have the Armory
propelOty, that's a given now. Some of the plans incorporated that and some
didn't. But I think it wasn't bad in terms of the sizes of the facilities,
I don't think that that has probably really changed.
FASCHING
Well, let's take the, as a suggestion, why don't we take the police station
and the City Hall, and kind of turn that over to Bill and let him come back
to us on some th9ughts and maybe recommendations on some rough drafts,
rendelOings, or something, where we're not going to spend a whole lot of
money at the offset. But he can come back and tell us at a later date how
we cO\lld layout a new Civic Center with a City Hall and police facility
and maintain this building here.
,MARGETT
OOLARD
MARGETT
Well, earlier, George, you said Bob Daggett. Did you want Bill Woolard
to do that?
I think Bill has to be the one in charge of this project.
Oh, yeah, sure. Obviously. Is Bill going to do the layout?
FASCHING
Well, Bill's got to tell us what he wants to do, I think. He's got all
the plOevious knowledge of this thing before us and everything else, he's
listened to what we've said here about 'this tonight, and probably maybe
has enough knowledge right now...you know the track we're on, right? And
you feel comfortable with it, to come back some time....
WOOLARD
I think we need to start with the Mounts thing and....
LOJESKI
I thought there was some problems as far as layout, because you had the
flood control channel that goes underneath the street, or something like
that, and that precludes certain problems that you can get into with
placement and things like that, and Bill's got all of that, so it's a good
idea.
FASCHING
But this shows that we know that there's a need to address this Civic
Center. And we don't have to decide tonight on which has priority over
the other, the City Hall...priority over the police station...I think we
all feel that they both need replacement, but we can get into the time
frame and that aspect later and let Bill go to work on a concept-type....
HARBICHT
I'm not sure that we want to get into a debate. I'm not convinced that
the City Hall needs replacement, and clearly in my mind....
FASCHING
Well, let's you and I go over there and I'll walk you through it tomorrow
when all those people are working in there like a bunch of sardines....
HARBICHT
Can I finish?
FASCHING
Sure.
HARBICHT
Clearly in my mind the Police Department has a much, much higher priority
than City Hall. I'm just expressing my opinion so that the rest of you
know how I feel.
I """""
I haven't walked that much through the Police Department, but I wouldn't
argue the point with you. But I know what those people working in that
City Hall.. .boxes piled from the floor to the ceiling. The Finance
Director in an office that's the size of a postage stamp. The only large
office in the whole place is the City Manager's.
HARBICHT
Are We going to debate this, or are we just exchanging ideas here?
FASCHING
No, we'll go over to the next item. I'm not debating what's first or
anything. But you came back and said you're still going to claim that the
Police Department is first.
HARBICHT
To me it is.
l6
FASCHING
MARGETT
FASCHING
MARGETT
FASCHING
MARGETT
FASCHING
MARGETT
FASCHING
CIRAULO
5.
SOUND WALLS
WOOLARD
LOPEZ
PUBLIC WKS. DIR.
But I said we'll go back to that later and decide which one we think is
first.
Mr. Mayor, you know, it might very well be, if you're going to go to a
bond issue on the thing, maybe you want to consider both of them at the
same time.
We can't do anything until we get some ideas.
Well, if you're going to go after some money, and there are going to be
revenue bonds, like Jim said, can they get it to fly?
Maybe in the next two years, by the time we get around to voting on this
thing, we can project $2,000,000 a year in additional revenue. That will
help pay for this type of thing. But we don't know that yet.
George, I have to say I like your idea, your concept, of the big-tiCkel
items and the little-ticket items. I mean, if we can work in the others
these up to $5,000,000 values or whatever that's going to be on a pay-as
you-go or reach-in-your-wallet-and-pay-for-it, that kind of intrigues me.
And then the concept of big-ticket items and plan for it....
Well, I was just going to kind of say we should close the subject on big-
ticket Civic Center items now and get on to the other things. And I go
along with Dennis, I think the first thing that's going to come up is this
Library, and I think that's the thing that has first priority in my book,
now at this other level we're talking about.
Want to make a motion?
Well, I'm not making any motion. I don't think we're here to make motions
tonight. We're here to discuss these things. But I know Bob and I know
Dennis feel that way about the Library, and I'm sure you do, too. So once
we get some final layouts and final figures, then we can make the decision
on whether or not to go ahead with the Library. And the same thing with
the auditorium. We can't act on that either. But I think we all agree
that there is certainly a need. And I've always felt the need for an
auditorium. And Bob comes back with these low-ball figures out of Duarte
and all of a sudden, boy, that opens the door...at $2.1 million and even
up to $3 million. So, those things, all of these things, I consider an
investment in the City. An investment, just like the School District, to
keep property values. And these people that live here deserve these
things. Who's next...you want to talk about what? Sound walls?
Let's move on to the next item.
The sound walls, Joe Lopez will give a brief report and also provide some
cost estimates and utilize the drawing on the wall to explain the sound
wall situation.
It shows the J
freeway from the westerly City limit to the easterly City limit on your
right. The sound wall shown in orange is the areas that were approved b
Caltrans or that are on the Caltrans priority list for the construction
of sound walls. Those are the only two in the City that are on that
particular list. The yellow on the left-hand side, there, on each side
of the freeway represents the sound wall slash retaining wall. That would
be walls that would be built in accordance with the widening of the freewa)
for enforcement area and HOV lanes in that area. The southerly portion
is the only portion that's authorized to be constructed by Caltrans at this
point, which is under construction now. The northerly yellow line
represents a sound wall in that area that is not authorized to be built
at this present time but may be in the future when funds become available.
I turn your attention to the drawing on the back wall.
17
HARBICHT
O.K., let me just clarify. The south side yellow is going to be
constructed as part of the HOV lane and everything.
LOPEZ
That's correct. The northerly portion, which is that yellow line, also
incorporates the portion of the sound wall that's shown in orange. In
other words, that will supersede that orange portion; the entire yellow
northerly sound wall will be built, basically, from some 100 feet to the
east of Michillinda Boulevard to practically Baldwin Avenue. What's shown
in blue on the map represents sound walls that are not qualifying,
according to the Caltrans formula. And that represents--I'll get a figure
for you--the south blue line or sound wall represents about $2.6 million.
The upper portion or the northerly sound wall shown in blue represents
about $2.5 million.
I. FASCHING
PEZ
AS CHING
This is the cost of putting it in at today's....
At today's dollars, that's right.
That's not the new block, there?
LOPEZ
If you looked at the polyurethane blocks that Caltrans is experimenting
with and if they approve it, you're looking at about 75 percent of that
cost rather than....
FASCHING
So you just save 25 percent.
LOPEZ
Correct.
FASCHING
So what was the total of the two figures you just threw out?
HARBICHT
So it would be $4 million.
LOPEZ
And if you throw in the orange line that represents the sound wall that's
on the priority list, but it's low on the priority list, that particular
portion would be $760,000. Now the figure that I had given you before was
about $562,000. That was the construction cost only. What I'm giving you
today is the construction cost plus engineering, inspection, and
contingency. So that would be the full amount.
MARGETT
Joe, what's the synopsis...when are we starting on that first phase. Is
that... .
LOPEZ
The yellow portion on south part? That's under construction now. They're
clearing, grubbing, and preparing to construct that now.
MARGETT
And the timetable for the north portion?
LOPEZ
There is no timetable because it's funding. But they plan to do it at
some time.
MARGETT
But the south portion was selected because 'of the decibel readings...or
how did they prioritize it?
IW'U
Well, both yellow portions...both walls that are shown in yellow there
have to be constructed according to Federal guidelines if the freeway is
widened. The freeway is only being widened on the southerly side to
provide for an enforcement area for the HOV lanes. They are not widening
on the northerly side. They may widen on the northerly side when the
Federal requirements require them to put in a sound wall.
MARGETT
In other words, we kind of lucked out on the deal, is that it?
LOPEZ
Correct.
FASCHING
May I ask you a question. On sound walls, the further away you get from
sound walls the less effective they are on the noise, or how does it work?
What I'm trying to ask is, I live at the top of one street and I'm a long
ways from the freeway but I can still hear the freeway. I'm probably,
maybe.. .can you hear the freeway?
18
HARBICHT
When I'm in front yard, yes.
FASCHING
Yeah, right.
LOPEZ
I think a lot depends on your elevation, the higher you go....
CIRAULO?
The higher you go the more you hear it.
FASCHING
O.K. But, with a sound wall on the north side of the freeway, would that
have any effect at my house, which is at the top, say, of Oaklawn Road?
LOPEZ
It depends on the elevation. If the sound wall....
FASCHING
Well, my elevation would be over the sound wall. So if you put in a sound
wall, what distance on either side of that sound wall actually gets the
real benefit of the sound walls? I
Those homes adjoining the sound wall.
For a distance of maybe 100 yards, 50 yards.... But it loses its effect
the further away you go from the sound walls.
FASCHING
LOPEZ
LOPEZ
And as you go up in elevation.
FASCHING
As you go up in elevation. If you go down in elevation it has a more
advantageous effect, naturally?
LOPEZ
Yeah, it would.
HARBICHT
As I understand it, the primary benefit of sound walls on the south side
of the freeway here would come to these houses along here (Catalpa) and
perhaps these along here (Altura), and then progressively less as you go
down the street. But not much farther than down to about here, because
at that point the sound really isn't very loud anyway. So you're talking
about... .
FASCHING
In other words it's kind of just a roar you can hear if you're out in your
yard like we do?
HARBICHT
I think so.
FASCHING
And then on the north side it would be...where the yellow line is it would
probably be those houses....
CIRAULO
As far as Foothill Boulevard.
FASCHING
... . Foothill Boulevard.
HARBICHT
Maybe to Foothill, yeah. But then, you know, the elevation is going up
pretty fast there. You cross Foothill....
CIRAULO
It rises and you hear it more then.
LOJESKI
The people, unfortunately, that are in the worst predicament is not thl
guy that's three houses away. It's, unfortunately, the guy that was there-
-we've all heard the story--the house was there, the freeway came through,
and he's still trying to live a life of peace.. .for whatever reason. Thos
are the people you feel real sorry for. And not even the guy that's got
the privilege of having a street.. . the guy that's got the freeway, a
street, and then his house is even less, or more immune I should say, to
the problem than the poor guy whose back yard abuts right up against the
freeway. And so we can say that this is the primary benefit. Again, if
you live there, I'm sure you have a good concept.
MARGETT
Well, I think if you're living there by choice...in other words, those
cul-de-sacs came in.. .people knew.. .went in there with their eyes wide
open and realized that that's what they were getting into. Those people
who... .
CIRAULO
On the north side, you mean.
19
MARGETT
Yeah, right. And those people....
CIRAULO
On the south side, they were there before the freeway was in.
MARGETT
That's right.
HARBICHT
Well, some were and some weren't. I mean, those people who have moved in
since the freeway, and. they paid less for the property as a result. The
problem is that these two orange parts that are on the list, well the
formula is constructed in such a way that there's a figure of the decibel
reading minus 67. It's multiplied by the formula. So if the decibel
reading is, say, 67, then the figure is 0, so it makes the entire formula
0, and if it's anything less, obviously, it becomes a negative number so
you don't get on the list. If you have 68, now you've got one more than
67 and SO now you've got a reading and you can be on the list, but you're
way down at the bottom of the list. And the difference between having a
decibel reading of, say, 68 and a decibel reading of, say, 72 is the one
with 68 multiplies the whole formula by 1, the one with 72 multiplies the
whole formula by 5. It's 5 times the magnitude. Even though the sound
difference is relatively small. So that 5 times the magnitude puts them
pretty high up the list. And so our folks here...our little sections of
freeway that have gotten on the list are so far down the list I don't
think they're ever going to come up. Because, as new freeways are built,
new areaS are moving in ahead of them because they have a bigger problem.
The problem is that...I know these people feel frustrated and, you know,
they come in and they say their piece and I play the same tune back to
them every time. But the fact is that compared to lots and lots of other
areas, they don't have much of a problem. I believe that the formula is
fair, that it takes into account the cost, how much remediation will take
effect, how many people will be affected, and the decibel level. Those
to me are all things that should be considered. And when you consider all
of those things, we don't qualify. And, so, the next step beyond that
is.. .you know, I don't argue with Caltrans, I think their formula is
correct and I think their way of allocating those dollars is correct.
Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, we don't have as severe a problem as
other areas. So then it comes down to should the City do it. Well, if
we're talking about $2 1/2 million or $5 million or $4 million if we put
up styrofoam blocks to benefit 300 or 400 people out of 50,000, that's a
hell of /l.n expenditure in my mind for a very small segment of the community
that's being benefited. And in terms of prioritizing things, I would
rather spend that $4,000,000 on something that's going to be of benefit
to maybe thousands of people.
I
MARGETT
Well, I think that we can sit here and intellectualize the needs of any
of these things all evening, and I guess maybe we're doing too much of
that. Mr. Mayor, what would be wrong...or asking the group...how do you
feel about going ahead and establishing a Sound Wall District for the
people who are going to be most benefited by a sound wall. That would be
from the entire north portion of the freeway. Go ahead and establish the
Sound District; if those people want to go ahead and kick in the $5 1/2
million to be able to get the sound walls, let's let them. At least
they're going to be able to sit out and have a barbecue once in a while
and not listen to the jake brakes of trucks that are coming down the
freeway. And if they want those things, I think they should have them,
and they can go ahead and vote for them and we can go ahead and go to
Sacramento and get them for them. But I feel the same way that you
do.. .it's a low~priority item if you're going to try and reach in our
wallets for $5 1/2 million. But if they want them and they can pay for
them, then let's let them have them.
I
CIRAULO
I don't think...they don't want them that badly.
FASCHING
I don't know how many houses are involved. I think that's a great idea.
LOJESKI
You certainly have a committee that's already there. It's been in place.
And that committee, I know, has had representation from the Council in the
past. Charles Gilb was a member of that committee; Mary Young was a member
of the committee.
20
HARBICHT
You were.
LOJESKI
No, I never was. And I kind of agree with Joe. I'm not so sure that they
just are saying, hey, City pay for the whole thing....
CIRAULO
Yeah, I don't think they're saying they want the City to pay for it
necessarily. They want us to do everything we can to push Caltrans to put
it on as high a priority list as possible. And I think we've done that.
I think we know where we stand now. The southern portion is being taken
care of. The highest impact on the most homes is now under construc-
tion...that orange line on the south side. So that takes care of a big,
major part of the concern. And we're just going to have to go along with
the others as they come up. I don't see....
LOJESKI
But we'd be into eternity, though, Joe, waiting for those sound walls.
And Caltrans has a great capacity to reprioritorize, like Bob said earliert
and these people are going to sit here for...nobody would be able to kno
the years.
They could also change their formula if they wish.
MARGETT
MARGETT
Well, yeah, but again we're intellectualizing.
HARBICHT
If they did, we would just move farther down....
LOJESKI
That's what I'm saying. The glimmer of hope in the last 10 years is at
least a couple of those areas have made it on the list. Doesn't make any
difference where they are. Now, the comment also that was batted around
was how do you get improved on the list without a higher decibel rating.
And, Joe, is it true that if the City were to contribute something for
them then they raise up on the list?
LOPEZ
That's correct. The City, if it contributes a portion, will raise the
item up on the priority list. But the City doesn't get reimbursed for
that portion that it contributes.
LOJESKI
Is there a formula that they go by, you know, percentage....
CIRAULO
Yeah, how much and how far up the list do they go?
LOPEZ
It's actually the same formula. They use the cost in dollars that's shown
on this formula that's on the handout. What happens is that if the City
contributes it lowers their cost. Then they crank that cost into the
formula. ..the new cost to them.
CIRAULO
Is it 'significant?
LOPEZ
Well, it depends on how much the City contributes.
MARGETT
Well, we're at least focusing in on it. I think that we should find out
what that amount is. And it might very well be that we could go back to
the idea that, if these people want to kick in that kind of money, maybe
we can get their sound walls.
The problem is that, let's say it's a $5 million deal, kicking in $2 1/21
million will double the value of the formula, and somebody else that's
some one decibel higher gets exactly the same effect because theirs is
multiplied by two and ours is only multiplied by one. So, the amount that
we kick in would have to be so large...and I still think that even if we
were to, say, put up $2 1/2 million, we would still be way down the list.
HARBICHT
MARGETT
O.K., fine, I agree. I don't know how many parcels we've got up there,
but these people. . . approaching the parcels and let them go ahead and accept
the tax on their property for $25 for the 20 years or whatever that item
might be, they might think that's the best thing in the world. That's my
point. And it would be an enhancement for their properties and certainly
an enhancement for the use of their properties. I think it should be
looked into.
LOJESKI
It certainly could be conversed back to that committee.
21
HARBICHT
You know, I think that what I would like to say to them is the City Council
does not feel that it can allocate $5 million to this. If you would be
interested in doing it yourselves, we will set up the apparatus for forming
an assessment district, and maybe we could give them some idea of what the
cost per parcel would be or something.
MARGETT
Do the politicking that's necessary.
HARBICHT
And then see what their reaction is...I think their reaction is going to
be no.
CIRAULO
I think so, too.
(GETT
lRAULO
Oh, I disagree, gentlemen. I think it's going to be yes. I think that
that is such a problem for those people up there, they're willing to accept
another $30 on their tax bill.
Well, why don't we at least provide this service for them and let them
find out how much it's going to be. Because we don't know...it could be
$3,000.
MARGETT
When I'm thinking of an assessment district, I'm thinking much the same
way that you're handling a lighting district, or some way that you could
broadcast the $5 million over a period of time.
FASCHING
Well, what I think is that we give them the opportunity to do that, but
I don't want to...I think that their sound wall committee should put
together the numbers of houses and the people and all the work. I don't
propose that we spend a lot of staff time involved in that aspect of it~
MARGETT
I'll make a deal with you. How about me? Do you want me to go over there
and chitchat with them and tell them what you want them to do?
FASCHING
It's not what I want them to do, it's what the Council wants them to do.
MARGETT
Well, when I'm saying you I mean the Council.
FASCHING
I don't think this Council is opposed to having a sound wall district if
that's what they want. But they're going to have to say how many houses
they have. They're going to have to solicit the people in the houses.
Well, we could, maybe.. .if they told us who the people were and the
addresses.... They should get some preliminary....
MARGETT
Sure. They should have a hearing on it.
CIRAULO
Remember now, you're ruling out that southern portion where the yellow
line is now, and that's been the most vocal, the most organized group.
LOJESKI
Talk to Mr. Caldwell and Mr. Zareh and you'll have all the bodies you
want.
CIRAULO
ILOJESKI
FASCHING
They live where the yellow line is.
Caldwell isn't on the yellow line.
Zareh is on the yellow line.
and if they want our help on
help them.
You know, we're here to help the citizens,
this, then fine, bring it to us and we'll
MARGETT
All right, who's going to make the contact?
LOJESKI
Can't this be done at a staff level? We've thrown out a new idea for
them, it's for Joe.
FASCHING
I think it's better at a staff level.
LOJESKI
Let Joe see if he can meet with both of those people.
22
FASCHING
6.
TRANSPORTATION
SYSTEM
FASCHING
WOOLARD
FASCHING
FEINBERG
ADMINISTRATIVE
ASS'T ./MGR.' S
OFFICE
FASCHING
MARGETT
HARBICHT
MARGETT
CIRAULO
MARGETT
HARBICHT
MARGETT
That's the first sound idea I've really heard about this since the sound
wall district to be honest with you.
O.K., let's go to transportation systems, next on here. I think that's
something Bob Margett wanted to talk about.
O.K., what we could do is get Dave Feinberg to give an update on where
things are at as far as the (inaudible) is concerned. Bob Margett had
mentioned this, and I'm not sure where he was coming from in his
thinking. . . .
Well, I think it would be good
anyway. Go ahead, David.
,,,., ""v" ,'v. = = v,""" .v """t
O.K. Are you just concerned with, primarily, LACTC, or with the operations
of our Dial-A-Ride, or both?
Well, I think Bob had in mind here.. .he talked about some kind of a
trolley...I don't know what he's got in mind.. . transportation system.
Well, why don't you give the update on LACTC anyway.
O.K. Transportation system. I think in the overall concept of looking
at numbers, increasing revenues for the City, doing something for the
downtown area, and also with the mall coming on line, I think that we have
to pay some attention to the balance of the community and be able to move
people throughout the community. And a transportation system that...of
course, I don't think there's any transportation system that is solely self
funded, obviously. But I think that to be able to move some citizens and
children around through our community on a mini-commuter-type bus much that
you'd find in communities like EI Monte, San Gabriel, and some of the other
neighboring communities, I think, is worthy of consideration. And I think
it would fit in very well, especially if we do any refurbishment in the
downtown area. And hopefully be a catalyst to be able to move potential
customers into the new mall area, and certainly be able to get people into
areas along Duarte Road...senior citizens. I think that the school system
could probably benefit from that transportation system. So someplace along
the line I think that it would be beneficial to at least look at a mini-
type transportation system for the community.
Well, we have one.
Well, yeah, but...you're referring to Dial-A-Ride. I'm talking about some
sort of a mini bus system.
How would you get people from where they live to the bus station...I mean,
create new parking lots? Are the people all going to gather in certain
locations, park their car, and then wait for the bus? I
I think it's probably just like any other community. I think the people
who have parked at the Hinshaw parking area and want to go over to the
mall, I think they could get on a shuttle bus system and go up to the
mall. I think those people who are shopping in the mall and would like
to get down to a new, refurbished downtown area on Huntington Drive could
be able to do that. I think visitors to our community who are in the
hotels out on the east side of our community could be able to use that
transportation to go to the Race Track or to the Arboretum or to the mall
area. And it provides an access for people to move through our community
and certainly gets rid of some of the traffic we have. It's very
successful in the EI Monte area. They love it to death down there.
They don't have the Dial-A-Ride.
Oh, I don't know whether they do or not, Bob.
23
HARBICHT
Duarte has a fixed-route mini-bus system.
MARGETT
How does it work?
HARBICHT
I guess it works O.K., but I don't think it works 'anywhere near as good
as our Dial-A-Ride. We have probably the most successful Dial-A-Ride in
Southern California. We have 165,000 people a year riding it. It's very
well received and seems to be fulfilling the need.
MARGETT
It's just that you have to call them, and they have to be on time. And
I don't see people going...if they're in Hinshaw's and want to go to the
post office, for instance, I don't see them getting a Dial-A-Ride and
waiting for the Dial-A-Ride to show up to be able to access them. The
concept of Dial-A-Ride.. . I 'm not throwing rocks at the Dial-A-Ride system,
that's fine. Especially for those people who are infirm or who are not
totally ambulatory or can't use an automobile. I'm talking about moving
people from one economic area to another economic area throughout our
community. Senior citizens along Duarte Road.
I
HARBICHT
That's what we're doing, we're providing door-to-door service.
MARGETT
I realize that, but you have to call them. I'm talking about something
that would be running every 20 to 30 minutes throughout the community.
CIRAULO
How would a person get from their home to the bus pickup point? That's
the problem. They still have to get in a car or in some way move to where
they're going to get picked up. Whereas Dial-A-Ride right now will take
you directly to your home, for the people who can't drive or don't have
a way around. My area of concern is, you would still have to get in an
automobile and get to Hinshaw's or the mall to pick up the bus to take it
to Hinshaw's or the post office, and go back and pick up your car and
drive home.
MARGETT
In other words, you prefer that same person to use his car doing that.
If you had errands to run and you had to go to Hinshaw's and then to the
mall. . . .
CIRAULO
How would I get to Hinshaw's to pick up the bus?
MARGETT
Well, you drive your car. But you will be eliminating cars on the road
by a mini-transportation system. That's what I'm getting at:
FASCHING
I think that if and when...the possibility exists of the Blue Line, which
is the trolley, which is... we've been working and pressing to get an
extension from East Pasadena out through our City on that. Or if the
possible commuter line, which would be a train, would come through Arcadia
with a stop in Arcadia and then on to connect with the Blue Line. But I
would foresee that this type of thing would be beneficial to the City in
conjunction with that type of a transportation system, because that could
serve not only the malls, that could serve Santa Anita, the people coming
to Santa Anita. I'm inclined to think that until that time or that
transportation system would be installed that perhaps our Dial-A-Ride
program is sufficient to serve our needs with the way we're going at this
time within the City. But I think when the time comes on a stop here for
some type of a through transportation system, that we would really have
to consider something to move people.
I ~'rn'
Well, that's a whole different ball game, there, because you'd have people
concentrated at a specific spot.
FASCHING
True.
LOJESKI
Let's assume you had a system which started at, quote, the station. Let's
say the station was in downtown Arcadia. You've got these people now
leaving their cars someplace else--could be another city, could be another
location. . They're there, and then your system can start there in making
its circuitous path.
24
MARGETT
If we do anything, and hopefully this Council will look at that downtown
area, which is deficient in parking I'm going to assume. ..1 can't believe
that one of the reasons that we have a deficiency in the downtown area is
because of a deficiency in parking. I feel that's what it is...I have no
facts to back me up...I don't mean to be just reaching conclusions. But
by the same token, that is an answer to your parking problems, if you have
a transportation system, to be able to get people. . . if you are at Hinshaw's
and you want to go over to Home Savings and Loan, for instance, who don't
have an awful lot of parking, or into the post office, that is somewhat
congested parking. I think that that type of a municipal mini-
transportation system would be beneficial in those cases. Especially when
you don't have parking.
LOJESKI
I think the parking deficiency problem has become mitigated, and to a
great extent the problem that I see is just numbers of cars on the
roadways. I
Well, you would have less.
You would under those circumstances. Downtown right now is really not a
deficiency, because all new construction that the Council has approved...
I know in the last 10 years...every development has had to come in with
100 percent for the parking requirements of the City, which was never done
up to that point.
MARGETT
LOJESKI
MARGETT
Well, the existing sure isn't up to snuff.
HARBICHT
You're talking about downtown.
MARGETT
Yeah, right.
HARBICHT
Yeah, there's nothing new there.
MARGETT
No, there's nothing new there, but you've got vacant store fronts and
you've got guys struggling.. . and I think we want.. .are interested in
revitalizing that area. I would be hopeful that we would be.
LOJESKI
Feinberg, what is the speculation on the Blue Line and all this sort of
thing, timewise, have you got any guesstimations on that?
FEINBERG
I'll give this to the entire Council, this will be exactly where we're at.
City of Arcadia participating with nine cities, and they have preliminary
plan studies along the Northern San Gabriel Valley corridor, which goes
all the way up to Claremont, and Bernardino. We're doing that in
conjunction with the LACTC. Here's a copy of it, this is a preliminary
draft of it, and we've given the Council a copy of that in the last few
months. This report describes six alternatives, and they're all in here.
This report is also going to give us patronage estimates, give us a
preliminary site plan and what our station will look like, and develop some
type of cost, a real basic cost, of what things are going to cost us in
terms of real estate and also actually build a station. This station will
be completed, hopefully, by the end of June or early July, and at that time
I'll have a better handle on just what things are going to cost. Because
right now we have a kind of a pie-in-the-sky price of an extension to Azusal
of about $400,000,000. But our consultants are going to come in a lot
lower than that, make our project a lot more cost effective. And so that's
where we're at, in terms of our light rail, that's where we're at. In
terms of the big picture, our corridor has been selected as one of eight
corridors competing for... to be funded in the next few years for an
extension. Now, we're competing with a line in Glendale, a line in Santa
Monica, a line at the 10-60 Freeway, a line down in South Bay, a little
connection in Norwalk, and a couple of other ones. Primarily, the way it
looks to me right now, is that our line is competing against the line in
Santa Monica and the line in Glendale.
CIRAULO
Dave, excuse me for just a minute. Any idea when that decision will be
made?
FEINBERG
O.K. And so what's happened is that they're going to set some criteria
to judge these different corridors in the next few months. And I was at
25
a meeting yesterday and they told us they're going to try to get that
decision down in what will be the first corridor by the end of the year.
CIRAULO
That's pretty fast.
FEINBERG
Yeah, I guess there's a little push because the RTD and the lACTC are
consolidating...they want to get that decision out of the way before they
start to merge.
CIRAULO
Aside from what we've already done, are there any things that we should
be doing at this point to push them in our direction a little bit more?
FEINBERG
We're working real hard in terms of making sure that this report, it gives
you, kind of, terms of patronage estimates and low costs. And politically,
(inaudible) come down to the end, it's politically how strong we can push
versus Glendale, versus Santa Monica. And all the councilpeople on this
corridor have been pretty active.
loo~
How did the guy from Norwalk get elected?
FASCHING
We don't know that.
WOOLARD
Which I think he was.
FASCHING
Yeah, he was. It's all going to come down, finally, to money.
CIRAULO
What about Antonovich? Is he very much pushing for it to come through
here...our corridor?
FEINBERG
At the meetings I've been to, he really hasn't...obviously he must have
some (inaudible) support because we're in his district, but he hasn't
really come out to us or through his alternate and said that he really
supports it.
HARBICHT
Is Glendale his district, too?
FEINBERG
I believe so, yes.
CIRAULO
So he's torn.
FEINBERG
Yeah. We actually got support from Gordon's office because they want to
see something get out here in the San Gabriel Valley. So lACTC got a call
from them actually wanting to help out.
HARBICHT
What's your best guess of our odds of getting it?
FEINBERG
The first one. . . it's going to come down to between us and, I would imagine,
Santa Monica, Glendale and us. The strong point with Glendale is they have
(inaudible). Santa Monica is showing real high patronage. And I think
our strong point is we're not serving just one community, we're serving,
I think it's, councilpeople from 10 different cities on this corridor and
the whole San Gabriel Valley so we can really, really work it, I think
that's our strong point. Because I don't think we can compete financially
with Glendale, because they're talking about really contributing a lot of
money.
I ,,~=
Yeah, but, see, our corridor, of course, would go out and carryall these
foothill cities.
FEINBERG
Oh, yeah. And the San Gabriel Valley Transportation Coalition was formed
to try to alleviate these past wrongs of all the money being spent up in
the Valley and the west side.
CIRAULO
So are they having the proper amount of clout in pushing for all these
cities?
FEINBERG
Well, initially, in the 30-year plan, the Coalition I think asked for 20
things to be added into its plan; they got 17 of them. And so, everybody
(inaudible). The only 'thing they didn't get was the push-up of the
(inaudible).
26
CIRAULO
Because in terms of population, they far outweigh the Glendale or the
Santa Monica consideration.
FASCHING
Glendales's got fifteen, eighteen million dollars
they're just dying to kick into that system. And,
storage facility that's a possibility for the cars?
in their pocket and
did you mention the
La Pistro told me.
FEINBERG
No, I hadn't.
FASCHING
That's a plus on our side.
FEINBERG
O.K., I guess initially there is supposed to be a rail yard site located
in Los Angeles. They've had real problems locating Los Angeles
politically. All of a sudden now they're looking at Burbank, because I
guess Burbank's offered some land that they're...and if that happens, then
obviously they've got to build that line first, because they've got to getl'
the trains to Pasadena and also to Glendale. But now LACTC has asked our
cities out here in Irwindale and Azusa to see if they can locate a site
out there.
CIRAULO
Sitings to store cars?
FEINBERG
Yeah, it's like an actual rail yard...that's the perfect place out there.
And of course if that happens...
FASCHING
If that happens, that loses weight.
FEINBERG
Yeah, because obviously they have to have the cars from out in Azusa down
at least to Pasadena, which means we're going to go right along with it,
regardless of how much money we put in or not. That's something that just
sort of happened in the last two weeks or so.
FASCHING
But you mentioned the word "clout"...go to one of those meetings and see
all the clout. It's coming out the doors down there and the windows and
everything else...at the LACTC meeting.
LOJESKI
David Dreier...is he involved in this very much?
FEINBERG
I think that he's involved in the San Gabriel Valley Transportation
Coalition.
LOJESKI
David Dreier...he and I happened to talk and he mentioned this. He said,
"Man, we've got to get this thing out, we've got to get this thing down
out into the Arcadia area.
FEINBERG
That's what it's come down to. ..it's come down to the local politicians.
But I also think that (inaudible) if Congress people and State Assembly
people go over and really start pushing it as well, I think.
MARGETT
Can we go back to the $400,000,000. Is that to....
FEINBERG
Yeah, that's all the way out to Azusa.
FEINBERG
O.K., now, is that for rights to the rail, or is that for construe-I
tion.. .what is that? Or is that just the price to get in and play the
game, or what?
No. That $400,000,000 price is...it doesn't include the...the cost of
the right-of-way is currently being negotiated with Santa Fe. It will be
separate. This is the cost of... I guess, in basic terms, it costs
$40,000,000 a mile to go light rail. And so, it's about 10 miles....
MARGETT
MARGETT
Construction costs, huh?
FEINBERG
Yes, that's including stations, that's putting the line in and that also
includes land costs. And that's just general. And so we think our
consultants are going to tell uS...we feel pretty confident that...that's
based on the Long Beach model and we think that our land costs and our
costs--because our corridor is already here--will be substantially less
than $40,000,000.
27
HARBICHT
Yeah, we already have the rights-of-way.
FEINBERG
Yeah, it's already there. Before, they had to take out tons of houses to
get the Long Beach, and we don't have to do that at all.
7.
EXPANDING
COMSN. ' S
FASCHING
O.K., thank you, David. Next item, if we're going to stay in order...we
don't have to, but...expanding commissions...I think Mr. Lojeski put that
on the agenda.
Iwm"
,There is an interest...you know, we are a community of people who like to
get involved in this City and City government, and I think we're missing
an opportunity by reducing numbers on commissions which occurred in the
past. And I think we have an opportunity, particularly with the
commissions that are the real workings, the nuts and bolts of the
community, one being our Planning Commission. I'd like to see that
commission expanded back to seven members, and I'd like to see the
Recreation Commission expanded back to seven members, which they initially
were and originally functioned at. I think the more involvement we can
get from the citizens of the community in the government process, the
better off we are. We should take advantage of it.
FASCHING
Do you think we should get the input from the existing commissions as to
how they feel about expansion or additional members to the commissions as
they stand now, from the members that are serving on those commissions?
CIRAULO
Why did we reduce the number on those commissions from seven to five, and
when was that done?
HARBICHT
Well, basically, when we reduced the numbers on the Planning Commission
was...the reasons that we did it was for efficiency purposes, and, one,
the feeling that if the City Council could run the entire City with five
members, five should be enough to handle the Planning Commission's
function. And my own feeling, and I was one of the ones who was a strong
advocate of reducing the size of the commission, was that as you increase
the size of the commission-you may get more people involved but you moot
the involvement of each person who's on it. And if you're one-fifth of
a commission as opposed to one-seventh of a commission, or in the case of
Arcadia Beautiful one-fifteenth of a commission, there's a difference.
When I was on the Planning Commission, when I was first appointed to the
Planning Commission and I walked into my first meeting, I was frankly
surprised that there were seven members up there. I had been on a Planning
Commission in another city that had five members, and I guess I just
assumed that's the way it was everywhere. So, I understand what Dennis
is saying and what he's trying to accomplish; my feeling is, though, that
you're diluting the authority and the involvement of the people who are
on the commissions by making the commissions bigger. So you have to weigh
the value of having more people involved versus the value of making each
person's involvement lesser. And I still feel that a commission of five
is an adequate number to get the job done, and that it works efficiently
that way. I think our Planning Commission, since we've reduced it, has
worked very efficiently. They've done a really good job. I'm not saying
that they've necessarily done a better job than before, but I haven't seen
any deterioration in the job that they are doing. And, well, as you know,
Joe, in the last two years they faced a lot of tough issues in the couple
of years prior to that, because you've been going through this whole thing
where we keep revising the R-l zoning codes. In fact, we took our Planning
Commission to dinner, the Council did, a while back just as a thank-you
for kind of taking all the flak before it got to us. I just don't see,
from the standpoint of efficiency and from the standpoint of doing a group
job how that would be improved by adding more members to the commission.
And Dennis feels differently, so there's kind of the two sides of it.
I
CIRAULO
How long ago was that done...do you remember when they changed' that?
HARBICHT
That probably happened about three years ago.
28
LOJESKI
It was a political decision. We had a commissioner on the Planning
Commission that one of our Council people took off after. It was the
infamous Gary Kovacic routine...we had seven members and the decision was
made, well, it's real simple, if we get to five that we don't make the
reappointment of the one. So there was a little political decision and
political maneuvering that went on at that point. Remember that the
commissions also are only advisory to the Council. They really are not
policy-making bodies. We set the policy.
HARBICHT
The other thing is the Arcadia Beautiful Commission, in my recent memory,
had 15 members, and it's now down to, I believe, nine. And that's the
commission that keeps asking to be increased. I haven't heard from any
other commission that wants more members. But they're asking to be
increased is. . . they only really have one function a year that they perform.
And so they have kind of a high manpower need for about a two-month period,
there. The rest of the time their manpower need is relatively Slightl'
And my suggestion to them, when I was liaison to them, is to recruit people
to help them...and basically, they're going around the City looking fo
houses to nominate and judging the houses that have been nominated for the
Arcadia Beautiful Awards. So the people who help to be judges in this
don't have to be commissioners. And to have 15 people who are real busy
for two months and are kind of doing pretty much nothing for the next 10
months doesn't really seem to me that that makes those 15 people real
involved in our City government process. That's the one commission that
periodically puts in a request for additional members. I think that maybe
polling some of these commissions, like the Planning Commission and the
Recreation Commission, two who have been reduced.. . and Arcadia
Beautiful...and saying, "What do you think? Do you think you'd do better
with more members, or do you think you're doing fine with what you
have. . . do you need fewer, or whatever?" Maybe getting an idea of what they
think.
FASCHING
I was the liaison last year to the Planning Commission and the year before
to the Arcadia Beautiful Commission, and last year to the Library Board,
and everything else, and I appreciate the involvement of our citizens as
much as possible in the City and commissions. I think there are some
commissions that perhaps would like more members. I must say this, the
Planning Commission functioned very efficiently with five members. I have
to go to one of the questions that's been asked of me: would I want seven
City Councilmembers. And I don't think I'd want seven City Councilmembers.
LOJESKI
We functioned with seven Planning Commissioners for 40, 50 years.
functioned with five, you know....
We
FASCHING
Well, see, I wasn't privy to when it worked with seven. It seemed to work
all right with five, but maybe it worked fine with seven.
LOJESKI
It might work fine with three. Would that be the next stage?
FASCHING
Well, I don't think it would work fine with three, no. But...Mr. Margett?
MARGETT
I hear both of them. I think that the idea that the people in the
community want to contribute to the community vis-a-vis a commission,
that's a good way to do it. And I think that the idea, the concept that I
they're interested in the community, and that took hold of their interest,
and they're making a contribution... they feel that they're making a
contribution.. . I feel provides some good stability for the community- -good
political stability for the community. I like that aspect of it. And
then you hit my on-button when you said, well, do you want seven Council
people debating an issue. You know, we spend a lot of time...we spent two
hours, here, going through nine agenda items and we're not even through
yet. But, conversely, I don't know whether the Planning Commission, for
instance...let's focus in on them...whether they have many, many hours of
Planning Commission time. And if we can just digress for one moment, if
we go to Item No. 10, architectural review boards for those areas of Arca-
dia that don't have any, I don't know whether you're thinking in terms of
establishing an architectural review board or is that going to be an
ancillary duty of the Planning Commission. Now, if you have that, well
maybe we should be looking at more commissioners. So maybe that's a hand-
in-glove, I don't know. Joe?
29
CIRAULO
Well, I guess I share the feeling of everything I've heard. And that is
a lot of people have expressed an interest to get more involved in the
City, and I think that's healthy...I think it's good. I think you do have
to temper that with something getting too unwieldy. But Bob just brought
up a good point...what about this architectural review board for areas of
the City that don't have any. Who would be on that...who would do it?
And if that would be a function of the Planning Commission, certainly five
is not enough.
FASCHING
Well, if we have questions about that, then why don't we just incorporate
that right into this discussion.
CIRAULO
But, you know, I think there's a broader way to look at it, too. If people
in our community want to continue to stay involved and volunteer and be
a part of it, what's wrong with that?, So we have a committee that's a
little bit too big. I think that's much better than people who don't give
a darn, and you can't find them, and nobody wants to serve on a commission,
and they couldn't care less, and the commissions are controlled by the same
group of people, the same small number. So there's a lot to be said for
the fact that we have a lot of citizens who want to be very involved, and
that's kind of nice.
I
HARBICHT
Well, Joe, at the same time, we have an awful lot of people that want to
be involved on the City Council, if you witness every City Council election
we have....
CIRAULO
Hallelujah for that. I think it would be terrible if we didn.t....
HARBICHT
So we don't expand the City Council just so we can accommodate more people.
I think that the fact that...achieving an appointment to that commission
or achieving election to the City Council is a meaningful thing, and I
think it becomes less meaningful if we say, well, since there's a lot of
people let's just have more people on the commissions. When I was on the
Planning Commission, I have to tell you, my reaction was, seven people!
That's a lot of people! I mean, it just made for much less efficient
meetings because, you know, there's just that many more people talking.
But the reason I thought was, why? If five is enough to consider the
affairs of the City as the City Council, why do we need seven for this
rather narrow area. I didn't see what the reason for it was. And I did
feel it was less efficient and it diluted my contribution. That my time
was less...I would have been much happier putting out the time and effort
I did if I had been one-fifth of a decision rather than one-seventh.
CIRAULO
How do you feel about the other commission that was reduced, the
Recreation.
HARBICHT
Same thing. I think that it's a fairly narrow area. I've been liaison
to the Recreation Commission, and I think that they have some good ideas
and operate pretty efficiently, and I don't really see how it would be
improved by just adding a couple of more people.
FASCHING
Well, I think it comes down to the involvement of the citizens on our
commissions and allowing them to involve themselves. I was told today by
Cindy that we ran an article in our quarterly newsletter inviting
commission people to qualify, and we've had quite a few calls concerning
that. So that does show an interest. However, I have to say I also am
torn here, because I like citizen involvement; and perhaps when we get on
this architectural thing and other things, and citizen committees that can
help us out on many things, and we might have a citizen committee to help
us out down the road with this Civic Center development and some people
that can give us input on that. The only thing I don't want to do is, I
think there's a danger on increasing--and bearing in mind I wasn't here
when we had seven--increasing commissions to a size where they don't act
efficiently and expeditiously on matters, whereby you would then discourage
some people from staying as a member of that committee other than just for
the fact that they're a commissioner and lose their effectiveness on that
committee because it takes too much time to get things done and too many
differences to go around the table on opinions.
I
MARGETT
Has that been a criticism, George? Has that been an actuality?
30
FASCHING
LOJESKI
WOOLARD
LOJESKI
WOOLARD
HARBICHT
WOOLARD
HARBICHT
MARGETT
HARBICHT
FASCHING
LOJESKI
FASCHING
8.
RELATIONS WITH
SCHOOL DIST.
FASCHING
LOJESKI
LOPEZ
LOJESKI
No, but I could see that happening. I think I have to go along, if there
were seven members....
You could ask Bill. Bill worked with a commission of seven and he worked
with a commission of five.
If I had my druthers, I'd have five, only because the meetings go faster.
The amount of work in preparing for the meetings is nice because you're
not distributing seven packets of material. I think the attendance has
actually been better with five than it was with seven.
Of course, that's a reflection of who you put on the commission.
Yeah, some people... obviously, if you get somebody who has a lot of
commitments that goes out of town, it kind of distorts it.
Didn't we do an attendance study about two years after we reduced thl'
commission and it ~id show that, and we kind of theorized it was because
when there was seven somebody thought, well, if I miss there's still si
left, and if maybe he didn't feel....
Obviously, you can go either way on it...it's not life or death. But I
think it has functioned quite well with just five.
It's not one of those things where you can plug in a formula and come out
with the answer, yes or no. I mean, I recognize that what Dennis is
saying...I see some merit to his arguments. I think he sees there's some
merit to mine.
Well, why don't you poll the commissions, Mr. Mayor. I think that was a
suggestion that Harbicht made.
We're all liaisons in different commissions, we could bring the subject
up and report back to the Council.
Would you prefer to do it that way?
That would be fine.
O.K., let's do it. And this time next month then we can discuss it in
open session as to what the individual Councilmembers found out from the
commissions that they are with every month. What the general feeling is.
Relations with School District.
I'll start out and make a statement. I think it was terrific...one week,
two weeks on the job or whatever...there was the study session we had with
the School Board. And I think that was a real first...the Board members
even said that, you know, we're sitting at the table and all of a sudden
somebody's handing us something and basically saying, "We would like tOI
do this for you." It showed some real, genuine sincerity. I understand
last evening, Bob, you went over and spoke to the bond people and that
sort of thing, and they were interested to see our involvement, which I
think is healthy... I think that's good. I'm wondering, in this type of .
thing with relations with the School District, we all know what the
problems are facility-wise and that sort of thing over there, and I'm just
going to throw out an example and a for-instance and maybe somebody can
answer whether it's possible or not. When we are slurry sealing streets
and things like that, we often do that with our own people.. .is that right,
Joe?
Not with our own people.
O.K., we contract out for that. Could we ever include with a project--
let's assume they were going through and they were going to do Campus
Drive, or they were going to do the connector street between Campus and
31
Duarte Road or something like that--to combine an effort in slurry seal,
for example, their small administrative lot parking lot?
LOPEZ
We could, with their contribution. Or, if the contribution were made out
of the General Fund. It can't be taken out of Gas Tax monies.
LOJESKI
I'll tell you why I brought it up. I happened to drive over there...I
went last evening and I parked back there. I think that parking lot, for
example, is in worse shape than Orange Grove. And I happened to make a
comment. I said, "Good Lord, Terry, do you ever do anything with this
parking lot, this is awful back here. Don't you have some sort of an
ongoing. . . ." He says, "Where are we going to get the money to do something
like that?"
'I.FASCHING
LOJESKI
Well, I agree with you on the principal of the thing. In this particular
instance, slurry wouldn't do that lot a bit of good at all.
Do we ever communicate with the District on things like that, or, for
example, if we have tree maintenance or something like that do we
communicate with them on maybe joining efforts...they need a tree trimmer
to do some work and we need a tree trimmer.
LOPEZ
Not to my knowledge we haven't.
HARGETT
I think it's an economical thing there. I mean, you quickly reach the
point of diminishing returns. In other words, they probably have enough
parking lots over there to be slurry sealed that we wouldn't assist them
one iota from the standpoint of a lower unit cost, nor would we effect any
real less charge for a tree being trimmed...I don't think. If it's a
question of us picking up the tab for it...I don't know where you're coming
from.. .but if it's that, well, then, I have some mixed feelings about that.
Cooperation, absolutely.. .no question about that. But I don't know
whether...if'you're trying to effect savings, I don't know whether you're
going to do it.
FASCHING
At least savings for them. If they can't afford to get something done,
can we throw it in to something...we're going to kind of help them out a
little bit. In relation to a new involvement with our schools, and this
type of thing.
LOJESKI
Well, I think that's swell, but I don't know what the costs would be, I
don't know what the problems are, and I don't know if it's something we
want to even consider.
WOOLARD
We have some assistance, really, already through the Recreation programs
and the portions we contribute towards pool facilities and some of these
other. . . .
HARBICHT
We maintain the fields and we resod them.
already.
I think we do an awful lot
WOOLARD
It's easy to do it that way when you have some City benefit that you can
share.
,- HARBICHT
HARGETT
Yeah, that's kind of a quid pro quo, though.
Now if we could go back to the transportation system, number six, that
might be also an assist, too.
FASCHING
You mean on the buses...their buses?
HARGETT
Yeah. No, no. I mean if we were to go to some sort of a community
transportation system, you could take some of the load, I would think, off
the School District in transporting those kids. ..if you routed it right.
An~ that would be a savings.
HARBICHT
Yeah, in terms of the relations with the School District, I've had a long
relationship with the School District as president of the Educational
Foundation, active in the Booster Club, and on and on, and a strong
supporter of the School District. I get a little nervous when we start
32
MARGETT .
HARBICHT
MARGETT
FASCHING
MARGETT
9.
COUNCIL. MEMBER.!
EXl'ENSi' POLICY' r
FASCHING
LOJESKI
HARBICHT
mixing the City with the School District. I recognize that they've got
some problems. And I, as an individual, would like to see some of those
problems solved, and I as a City Councilman, from the standpoint of what's
good for the City, would like to see some of those problems solved. At
the same time, I've been in a community where the Council was perceived
as meddling with the School District and ttying to run the School District,
and there was a very strong sentiment there that the Council ought to get
their nose out of School District affairs and let the elected officials
of the School District run the District. And I know that that's not the
situation here, at least it's not perceived as the situation here at the
present time, but I think it's kind of a narrow path you have to walk.
If you cross over from being helpful and accommodating to...you can get
a little too far over and then you get a reaction to that.
Yell, you're absolutely right...I think ,you have to preserve the autonomYI
there's no question about that.
Right. And I think that we're probably very generous in our maintenanc
of fields and things like that, relative to what we get from it, but I
think to just step in to some area and say "Your parking lot needs saving
and we'll do it," I don't mean to pick on that example...but, you know,
"Your buildings need painting, we'll paint the buildings," I think that's
getting into an area we, shouldn't be in. The schools have funding
apparatus; and inadequate as it is, that's really theirs to do and their
to take care of. And I'd like to see us be as cooperative as possible in
other ways; and I think, for example, this election thing is a perfect
example of we're working hand-in-glove with them. I think the meeting
that we had with them last week to talk about an auditorium which is
something of benefit both to the City and the schools are good examples,
and I'd like to continue that kind of relationship.
Yell, and the other aspect, too, is that, don't forget, we're of course
serving the same tax payer. The same guy that's picking up the tab on
municipal government or the Board of Education is that same guy, so...you
know what I mean? So you've got that aspect to consider, too.
I think that in the past month, two months, whatever it is, we've gone a
long ways in establishing a new relationship with the School Board, both
in the area supporting their bond issue to being involved in offering them
some thoughts on their bond issue, calling the election, and the
auditorium, and showing what we want to do. And I\think our relationship
is at that level. I do feel that it's a very fine line, like Bob says.
They could get all of a sudden to think that we want to run their show,
and that's the furthest thing from our mind. But when you get five
personalities.over there and five personalities over here, you get into
a real area there where, "Yell, I think they're 'going a little too far,"
and blah, blah, blah, and everything goes to hell pretty quick. I think
we're doing the right thing at this present time in our relationship with
them.
Yell, you made that clear at our last meeting, though.
prefaced the meeting...that you're not trying to interfere.
that we're coming from the right spirit and aspect of it.
I think you
And I think
I
O.K. Yell, anybody else on that? O.K. Councilmember expense policy.
Who put that on?
I think it was generated...Cindy regenerated Bob's situation, and that
seems to be workable, as far as I'm concerned.
The only problem is, I wrote that memo and we all kind of agreed that
would be it, but I've never turned in an expense account in the last three
years, other than if I was going off on a conference or something.
33
LOJESKI
FASCHING
MARGETT
FASCHING
a:GETT
ARCH. REVIEW
BOARDS
FASCHING
MARGETT
FASCHING
MARGETT
FASCHING
CIRAULO
I
HARBICHT
MARGETT
Moving right along, then. Architectural review boards for those areas of
the City that don.t....
Well, wait a minute. Bob brought that question up. Does that suffice.
Bob?
Does the memo...that satisfied that.
Well. yeah. the memo satisfied that. I didn't realize there was anything
in place, and I thought that we should be in concert if we're going to
have expenses. ...'
Are you comfortable with that policy?
Sure.
Architectural review boards for those areas of the City that don't
currently have them.
Absolutely essential.
O.K.. why don't you lead off then.
Of course, I'm coming from the southern part of Arcadia where those people
do not have control of their destiny with regards to their neighbors'
homes. . . they have no input, particularly to the design. When I say design,
I think it's the entire design, Mr. Mayor. I'm talking about the colors.
the planning, the garishness of homes, the type of architecture. They can
only input after the thing is up, and then there's a lot of complaints.
And I think that for those areas that do not have the architectural review
board, I would like to see something in conjunction, really, with the
Planning Commission to be able to give those people an opportunity--those
people meaning the board itself--an opportunity to appraise those projects
much like the homeowner associations do. function much like the homeowner
associations do. Now, the south is a different breed of cat. You're not
going to be able to, I don't think, go out there and set four or five
homeowner associations up. I think that may be more bulky than what we
want. But the concept of having an architectural review board for that
portion of the City that doesn't have it appeals to me. And I think it
would do an awful lot to solve the concerns of so many of the citizens in
the south part of town.
Joe?
Well, you're not going to ever get people in the south part of town to
have a homeowners association. There have been several attempts made,
they've tried very hard. and they just can't get enough consensus to get
one going. They've tried several times. So, we have to be the architec-
tural review board for the south part of the City. Now, whether the "we"
is us on the Councilor a combination of people on the Planning Commis-
sion, or some other people...but someone has to watch out for the south
half of the City, too. I agree completely. How we go about doing that,
I'm not quite sure how we approach it.
Bob, as strongly as you feel in favor of it, I feel at least as strongly
in opposition. I cannot believe that you're thinking that government can
do a better job of designing people's houses than people do themselves.
That to me is the Willie Brown and Ted Kennedy approach that says, "Folks,
you don't know how to do these things well enough, but those of us in
government have all the wisdom that it takes to decide what color your
house should be and how your planting should be and what the design of
your house should be. And I think we're taking away a basic freedom from
people. and that the cure is much worse than the illness.
I couldn't disagree with you any more. I'm sorry.
34
CIRAULO
How do you feel about the current architectural review boards?
HARBICHT
The cu,rent architectural review boards were something that people entered
into voluntarily. And the fact is that I kind of have mixed feelings
about them...they've done some good, they've done some things that I think
were wrong. But, basically, what we're doing is if we put an architec-
tural review board over the entire City that is run by the City, it just
basically is government deciding how the houses should be designed. And
I just don't see that as the kind of thing that I think that we should be
doing. It does not fit at all with my concept of the proper role of
government and the proper role of the individual in the United States of
America.
CIRAULO
Should we try to encourage the people in their own neighborhoods to form
their own associations?
If they want to. The fact is, when they've tried it they haven't beet
successful. And the reason they haven't been successful is because th~
people are saying, "Wait a minute. You're telling me that my neighbor
are now going to decide what I do with my house? I want to control them,
but I don't want them controlling me." And that's been the problem. And
when they did that the last time, which was two or three years ago, they
worked very hard on it, and as time went by and people began to understand
more and more of what exactly was going to be involved, all of a sudden
people were backing off saying, "No, this isn't what I want. I don't want
my neighbors telling me what I can do."
HARBICHT
MARGETT
Well, Bob, why do we have, or maybe, is there anybody else here have, the
complaints on the Disneyland houses that we have. Those that are blocking
the views of mountains, the intense use of land, the rest of the stuff
that only government can take care of. I mean, this laissez-faire just
go ahead and do what you want to do out there... what may be nice and
beautiful to you may be a pile of to everybody else. And I don't
think that it's right for you to pass, maybe, your thoughts upon the
balance of the community because you think, for instance, that what you
have is beautiful.
FASCHING
Before we get into debate on this issue, why don't we go around and hear
from everybody first, then we'll come back and question and answer of each
person. Dennis?
HARBICHT
Well, I share concerns for both sides. I have yet to hear somebody tell
me who's functioning in the realm of a homeowners association that they're
really against it...if they have it's been for very subtle reasons. On
the other side of the story, during the campaign, a couple of months
particularly, I heard nothing but complaints by those people that are
affected, that don't have any architectural review. And it all seems to
be a function of size...size and massiveness and all that. I think the
City Council did a commendable job of attacking some of those points.. . the
setbacks, height limitations, and that sort of thing. But there is still
the problem out there yet. On the other side of the coin, go up to the
Upper Rancho Area where there is the 11,OOO-square-foot house with the
nine-car garage or whatever in the world it is. That passed the
architectural review board, and yet all of the people that live in thel
area say how did that happen.
I think you have to keep in mind...and to my knowledge, I think there's
been something like seven houses built under the new ordinance. Everything
else that has been built was under the old ordinance. So, the ordinance
that we passed which significantly increased the side yard setback,
particularly for second floors, did a lot of other things, there have only
been seven houses in the entire City that have been built under that
ordinance.
LOJESKI
FASCHING
Yeah, but I think that's because of the fact that the building slowed
down. You can still build the style of architecture and house that we're
discussing here....
HARBICHT
You misunderstand. I'm not saying it's because of that ordinance that
there haven't been many houses built. What I'm saying is that the
35
complaints primarily are about houses that were built under the old
ordinance, that there hasn't been enough time for the new ordinance to
have manifested itself.
LOJESKI
Let me just continue with a couple of points. I live in an area where
there is a homeowners association. I haven't had any problems with the
homeowners association, but isolated circumstances have come up. But I'm
looking at Resolution 5426. Bob wasn't there at the time and he obviously
(inaudible). Maybe the requirements of formulating the homeowners
associations, if I'm looking at that and interpreting it correctly, were
so tough to comply, maybe that was one of the reasons they could not form
a homeowners association. And I'll give you an example: It says the
proposed homeowners association area should consist of not less than 150
gross acres. The proposed homeowners association area should consist of
not less than 200 properties. Is that making it too difficult? Let's
assume that there is an area of 50 homes that wanted to formulate a
homeowners association. According to that resolution they can't, am I
right, Bill?
I
WOOLARD
Essentially, yes, although the Council still would have it's discretion
to (inaudible). But these were guidelines that it was intended that they
sort of follow.
LOJESKI
Yeah. So, I throw that out, I guess, as a piece of conversation on the
whole thing. . Have we created something that's an unworkable document as
far as getting that many people involved, I don't know. And yet, I hear
what Bill just said which is there's only been a very few, small number
of homes that have been built with the new ordinances, and what is that
going to do (inaudible). I don't know.
WOOLARD
Well, I think based on what we've found in dealing with the people that
were trying to form the one in the Baldwin Stocker area, I'm not sure that
it makes too much difference in the size...you're still going to have a
problem in that people want the regulations on the other houses but not
on their own. I think no matter where you go and no matter how many people
you try to incorporate, you're going to have problems forming an
association, because people don't want the restrictions. It means that
it's going to be harder when they go to sell their property to somebody
who wants to put a so-called Monster Home on or something. They start
thinking about these things in terms of dollars and cents to their
pocketbook, and all of sudden it's, "Maybe we really don't want it. Maybe
we can live with a big house next door because someone might put a big
house on our property some day."
FASCHING
I personally don't feel that there's anything wrong with a large house.
What we've done in the last few years and what we've talked about on
setbacks and height and everything has gone a long way. However, in the
area of...there are quite a few large houses of design that fit in with
the neighborhood, and they are large houses. I don't think this City is
going to go on with...it's future is small houses. The future is a larger
style house. But we're talking here, to my way of thinking, strictly the
design of the house and what appearance it makes in the neighborhood and
the street it's in. We have homeowners associations, primarily north of
Huntington or Foothill, as the case may be, where they deal with these
problems of architectural design and in areas where they already have some
larger houses, so that it's not the house that doesn't fit in so much as
the design of the house. But those people on those homeowners associa-
tions have to act within the guidelines and the rules that we set down.
But they do serve a purpose, is that they can consult with the person going
to build that house and try and get him to bend a little bit to make the
house a little more compatible with his neighbors' and things that they
think that they will be comfortable with. But if we have a review board,
and we're talking here is to the long-range development of the City, the
development in the area of what we call Monster Houses and I call Designed
Houses...they're not designed the way their neighbors want them or the
people want them, and there are other cities that control the design of
a house to fit in with the neighborhood. And I think that large houses
can be designed that they fit in with a neighborhood, rather than stand
out like a sore thumb. We've had that kind of construction or development
in our City for quite a few years. And I for one think it's kind of messed
I
36
up our City to have these type of houses scattered throughout, and drive
down a street and all of a sudden they hit you in the face. I don't think
it's because they built a large house on a lot, but that they built a
grotesque house in the estimation of a lot of people. And done because
developers have built those houses and know what they can sell and know
what market they're catering to. Other cities don't allow this. I don't
think the City of South Pasadena...I know the City of San Marino doesn't.
You have to have a conditional use permit in San Marino to build a house,
and if it doesn't conform to their neighborhood, you don't build that
house. I think what we have to consider here are two things, to my way
of thinking: If we want to plan for the future of this City so that it's
not developed architecturally hither and yon, and we have some continuity
of the type of architecture that we're going to allow in the City, then
we have to do something about that. We're not trying to restrict large
houses or that development, but you can end up 20 years down the road with
a city that looks 'like Disneyland. Secondly, if you have arChitectural
restrictions of the type where we have a plan for this City, the way it's
going to look architecturally, then you have to have an architectural
review board that represents the entire City, because they are going t
have authority throughout the City, not to represent just south Arcadia.
Because you can't represent south Arcadia and not represent the entire
City. The creation of homeowners associations in the south I think would
be very difficult and a long process, and I don't know if it would serve
any real purpose down the road because it's the City Council that's going
to have to say which way you want this City to develop and which way we
want it to go. I think that's the issue that we have to address. Do we
want to permit any type of architecture to continue throughout the City
regardless of the style it is, Mediterranean, European, oriental, or what.
Or are we going to set some architectural standards for the City and have
those in place and an architectural review board that has the same as the
Planning Commission that represents the City Council. So I think we have
to decide the one thing. Just anybody build what they want, any style they
want, as long as they're to code, and they can look like anything, or do
we finally come out and say we want this City to develop for the long range
with some guidelines. That's the way I read it.
HARBICHT
Well, you're right. You're absolutely right. There's a difference between
architectural guidelines and government. control of your design,
FASCHING
Well, Bob, I know what you mean about government control and telling
somebody what they can and cannot do. But we represent 50,000 people
living here, and do those 50,000 people want a mishmash of architectural
design in the City, such as has been done, and the type of architecture
in the last five years? Or do those people in this City say, "Hey, we've
got a City here that should have some controls." Because we can go out
and see some beautiful, large, two-story houses. But we can go out and
see some grotesque, large, two-story houses. Now, do we want the grotesque
and the other kind, and don't we give a damn about how houses are designed
to make this City one City? That's what I'm saying.
HARBICHT
Fifty thousand people speak with one voice as to the type of architecture
they want?
FASCHING
No, but I've heard an awful lot of complaints from the people that say"
"Look at these houses...they're ugly."
Virtually all of those complaints.. . and I hear them all the time, too... _
have to do with the size of the houses, not with the design._
HARBICHT
FASCHING
Well, Bob, I can take you out and show you a very large two-story house
that fits right in with the block.
HARBICHT
I know. I think a lot of them do.
FASCHING
Well, what about the ones that don't?
HARBICHT
I guess it's one of those things where you believe in freedom of speech
or you don't. You believe in freedom of expression or you don't. You
believe in the people of this country being able to act on their own
property and to build the kind of house they want to build, or you believe
37
"', ~ .,.;..'
that government should control that.
should control that.
I don't believe that government
FASCHING
Well, it's a good argument.
HARBICHT
That's what it all comes down to.
FASCHING
I think about the responsibility to the development in the future of an
entire city, and if you screw it up because you said, "Hey, build anything
you want and make it look like anything you want," then you're just
throwing it down the drain.
HARBICHT
Well, that's what's been going on in this entire country ever since it was
founded. And I think we've got a pretty nice City here, and I think we've
got an awful lot of nice development everywhere in this country without
the government stepping in and saying, "Hold it, folks, from now on you're
going to do it the way we tell you."
l"TI
Well, I can show you some lovely areas where government has shown the way
with design. I can take you down to Irvine and show you areas there that,
to be honest with you, compared to some of the areas in Arcadia, Irvine
would win hands down. I can take you to Rancho Bernardo and give you the
same thing. And I think that the argument that you give, that you ought
to be able to do any darn thing that you want to and too much government
meddling, doesn't hold weight there. I think that's what we have been
elected to do. I can point out the savings and loan debacle that we have
right now as a. . . really, we got rid of a lot of restrictions and guidelines
and we have the problems that we have there...just as for one instance.
And I think ,to be able to have the citizens put in what they want for their
community as far as architectural guidelines is not an awful lot for them
to ask of us to do. And they have asked us to do it.
FASCHING
I think you're right. Let's drop the word "guidelines."
"restrictions." Architectural restrictions.
Let's use
MARGETT
Yeah, I would buy that.
FASCHING
But I mean, no use beating around the bush...that's what we're talking
about.
HARBICHT
If we were to...I can't visualize exactly how to do this...but if we were
to draw up some guidelines that...well, I won't give an example because
I can't think of one...but if we were to draw up some guidelines that said
certain styles of architecture are permissible and certain styles are
not...in other words, you cannot build dome houses; you cannot build...
well, I just use that as an example without trying to.... That's
something that, depending on the specific design of the ordinance, I would
be able to live with. But the idea that every person who wants to add a
room on to his house has to come before some government bureaucrats...
FASCHING
We're not talking about adding on a room.
HARBICHT
l~"",
...and get their permission, and every person who wants to build a house
on their own piece of property has to come before some government
bureaucrats and get their permission, I find that abhorrent.
Wait a minute, Bob. How can you all of a sudden make the statement, when
we're talking about the architecture of new, large houses in the City, and
now you're coming back saying if we set architectural guidelines and
restrictions that you can't build this and this, isn't that the same thing
you're opposed to?
HARBICHT
No, it's not.
FASCHING
Well, what was it you were opposed to?
HARBICHT
Then it becomes a government of laws, not a government of men, a government
of individuals sitting down and imposing their particular taste on each
and everyone of us. There's a big difference there. I believe in a
government of laws. And I believe that we set a, for example, zoning
38
ordinance which says these are the setback restrictions, these are the
envelope within which you can build. But then we have individual freedom
of expression within that for people to design what they want to design,
to build the kind of house that they want to build.
FASCHING
But you're saying that if we decide that we don't want certain designs
within the City and make that our law, then that's O.K. with you, is that
what you're saying?
HARBICHT
Yes.
FASCHING
Well, that's the track we're on.
FASCHING
That's not the track we're on if we're talking about an archi tectural
review board, which is an entirely different....
Well, then, I think we set up an architectural review board to set some~
standards for the City and make it law. ~
We could have a study committee to come up with some recommendations, '
perhaps.
HARBICHT
HARBICHT
FASCHING
I was under the impression that you were saying let them build what they've
been building, they don't bother you. You didn't say that?
HARBICHT
I said that it would be far preferable to me than having an architectural
review board of four to five individuals, or seven, or whatever it is, to
sit down with every room addition, every house...Bob talked about
landscaping. .. and approve those things. I think that's unwarranted
government. . . .
FASCHING
Well, I didn't hear landscaping or adding on a room mentioned. We were
talking earlier....
MARGETT
I mentioned landscaping, and I would also include painting....
FASCHING
Well, I think we're on to something that we can all live with, and that
is to finally determine some architectural standards for this City that.
we will enforce. And if you want to call them guidelines, I think they're
just going to be....
CIRAULO
I think that's a good idea. As long as they remain pretty broad and
general in nature. Somebody just tossed out painting for a second, and
I'm remin4ed of the story I read in the paper about in Laguna Beach they
have a law, the houses have to be white, something like that, and this guy
painted it eggshell. Well, to what degree.. .you can go a little bit crazy.
Maybe I don't like a blue house, but maybe you like a blue house, and I
think you've got to allow that sort of thing to go on.
FASCHING
Oh, I don't think we tell everybody everything to do, but what I'm thinking
of, we determine what this City is going to look like...I don't mean, like,
the guy wants to plant a tree here or something, or paint his house...but
architecturally what is it. going to look like, and have some restrictions
on some of the things they've been building so that this City will haVI
some semblance of looking somewhat as a uniform type of City. I don't mean
to stifle creativity or anything like that, but I don't want to kee
driving down Fifth Avenue and Second Avenue and see these places they'v
been building and have them spotted all through this town. This town is
going to look crazy. It's already got a reputation of all these mansion-
type houses they've built here, as to why we've allowed this to go on the
way we have. Fortunately, in the last year it hasn't gone on that much.
Seven building permits, right?
WOOLARD
Well, I think it's about twenty....
FASCHING
But believe me, it will all come up again and they'll be building as fast
as hell, and we'll all look like Disneyland. So I think we have to find
some way of establishing and creating these architectural restrictions so
that we can have some continuity to the long-range development of the City
39
HARBICHT
FASCHING
HARBICHT
FASCHING
~WIT
FASCHING
HARBICHT
FASCHING
HARBICHT
FASCHING
HARBICHT
FASCHING
LOJESKI
FASCHING
CIRAULO
LOJESKI
,. FASCHING
HARBICHT
MILLER
CITY ATTORNEY
so we don't have turret houses here and Medi terrane an there, and everything
else.
Well, see, I don't agree with...if those are examples of what you want to
do, then I don't agree with that. I think some of the nicest areas in
this City are areas that all have architecture-designed homes and there's
a lot of contrast in the styles.
Are there any houses that have been built you don't like?
You look at Dennis's street. There's a variety of different styles of
houses.
They all kind of fit, though, don't they?
But they're very different. There's ranch-style homes, there's...I don't
know what you call yours, sort of a Mediterranean. . . I don't know what they
all are called. So I don't want to say, this street is ranch-style homes
only.
No, no, no, no, no.
If you want to say that our guidelines are we're not going to allow
pagodas, we're not going to allow dome houses, we're not going to allow
subterranean houses, O.K.
Now we're on to something, Bob.
O.K., but these are examples of...you don't want a hodgepodge of turret
houses here and Mediterranean houses there. That to me is individual
expression.
Well, that was the wrong example. Let's go back and be specific with the
things that you mentioned. Yes, those are the things we're talking
about. . . domes and....
I can go along with that. But then when we take the next step and say
let's set up an architectural review board to review every single one of
these, and for one thing it's very cumbersome, extremely expensive, very
staff intensive. But the second part of that is that now I think we're
meddling in places we have no business meddling.
No, no. If we set up architectural restrictions and, if we use the word,
"guidelines," then our Planning Department can be the review board, or
they'd be in design to what we've set up as our architectural standards.
That becomes part of the permitting process.
That's right.
City wide.
I didn't hear Bill say yes or no.
But there are cities that do it on an individual basis.
It would depend on what the guidelines are.
One of the things you might want to consider in view of all that's been
said is that Planning Department and City Attorney office put together
alternative ways of approaching this problem, some of which you've alluded
to, in terms of what's happening in the country and what's been legally
sustained. A lot has been sustained in the last five years on architec-
tural reviews, so there's a lot more leeway for you to do different things
than there was five years ago, and there are also some limits, too. And
I wondered if, preliminary to any further action by the Council, some
input from us as to what to say to the ARB's, how far you can go, and the
different ways of accomplishing these different things were on the table,
then you would be able to....
40
CIRAULO
I think that's a perfect way to go.
MARGETT
That's great.
FASCHING
Well, that's good. But then I think the second thing is we need to create
a citizens committee to help us determine all of these things we're talking
about.
MARGETT
What they want, in the community.
FASCHING
I think we need representatives from throughout the City and to give us
their guidelines and recommendations. This isn't something we're going
to do in 30 days, but I think the sooner the better. But here's a perfect
spot to have a citizens committee to help advise us on....
FASCHING
What hearings?
,., "'~ 1
MARGETT
Mr. Mayor, you may have that in the Planning Commission, and
ahead and have their hearings with regards to that, too.
MARGETT
With regards to architectural review.
WOOLARD
I think you'd be better off with a separate committee that could just
focus on this thing, and draw the average citizen, and also draw from the
architectural professions and....
LOJESKI
Also draw from real estate people, because they're going to come back and
say I "Hey, you never consulted us."
HARBICHT
Two years ago we did exactly that. We had representatives of the
architectural review boards that now exist, we had a number of representa-
tives from south Arcadia, and we had some realtors, we had some
architects, we had a couple of builders, and we had two or three meetings.
I chaired those meetings...it was in this room. The room was full, and
we discussed detail after detail of these things. And what the result of
that was, was the ordinance that we passed not quite two years ago...the
new R-l zoning ordinance. And I'm not saying we can't do it again,
but.. ..
FASCHING
But we didn't really concentrate on architecture, architectural restric-
tions.
HARBICHT
No, it was zoning, wasn't it?
FASCHING
Yeah, right. We're talking here architecture. We're pretty well done
with our zoning ordinances.
HARBICHT
What I'm saying is we've got a blueprint for establishing a committee,
because I think what we did at that time was the way to go. You've got
to have some architects in there, you've got to have the realtors in
there, we don't want to destroy the economic health of the City.
FASCHING
City
some,
I know, but what I'm saying is we want them to be considered standards....
But I think they're the people that are going to tell us also.
I think we're doing more to destroy the future economic health of the
if we don't get on it than we are by getting on it and getting
standards as far as architecture is concerned.
HARBICHT
FASCHING
HARBICHT
I'm not arguing against the committee, I'm saying we've got a blueprint
for how that committee should be, because I thought it worked very well
last time.
FASCHING
Well, why don't we have Bill Woolard come back with us for some recommen-
dation with Mike on the formation of a citizens committee.
HARBICHT
I think it's important that Mike's part of it, too, so we know what the
restrictions are (inaudible).
41
FASCHING
Well, you guys work out the procedure. At least we can get the ball
rolling. Well, I think we accomplished a lot on that.
11.
LIGHTING
DISTRICTS
LOPEZ
With your permission, I'd like to pass these out. This is on the lighting
districts. What this indicates is, the red indicates the streets that are
lighted that are not within any zone or district. In other words, the
General Fund picks up the cost for the lighting. Those streets that are
blank, or white, on this sheet indicate no lighting at all. The other
portions that are shaded respond respectively to Zone A, B, C, D, and E.
(AS CHING
, . LOPEZ
HARBICHT
Bottom line being we have a third of the City without street lights in the
residential Zones.
Approximately 25 to 30 percent.
Joe, I have a question. On your report, you say in here that the cost
runs from $50 to $250 per year to a property owner to be a member of the
lighting district. And so, I guess I'm questioning the cost. I pulled
out a tax bill from a piece of rental property that I own and the rate was
.022887 percent on land value only. And it was $18.40. I bought this a
few years ago, so maybe if somebody bought it today it would go up to
maybe $50. Is $50 to $250...it seems to me that the typical would be much
closer to the $50 than the $250.
LOPEZ
That's correct. But it can range up to $250, but $50 is the more typical.
HARBICHT
I mean, let's say that we had one of these streets with no lights on it
and then they got their 60 percent to sign the petition and came
down.. . one of these down here between El Monte and Santa Anita. Isn't it
pretty likely that they'd be in the $50-$60-$70-a-year range? Because in
our article that was in the City Newsletter, the $50 and $250 was quoted,
and I know I would look at that if I was thi~king about putting lights in
and say, oh, maybe $50 but not $250 for a street light that's going to
serve my house and five others...it seems like an expensive deal. I was
just wondering if we could tighten that down and say the average property
pays this much, yours may vary, specific numbers are available, or
something. It might make it a little more attractive, a little more
palatable.
LOPEZ
Sure we could.
HARBICHT
Incidentally, Monrovia has a direct assessment. Are they operating under
these 1972...
LOPEZ
I believe so, that's correct.
HARBICHT
That's basically a parcel tax?
'LOPEZ
HARBICHT
LOPEZ
Well, it's not a tax, it's an assessment for benefit. And it's usually
on the lot or per front footage or per area.
As opposed to....
As opposed to (inaudible).
HARBICHT
Assessed value.
LOPEZ
Correct.
LOPEZ
Most cities are on the 1972 Act. As far as I know there are only two
cities, at least in Southern California, that are on the 1919 Lighting
Assessment District Act, and that is Oceanside and Arcadia.
HARBICHT
We're a very conservative City, you know. In either case, I mean,
Monrovia's worked...I worked it out as if it was assessed valuation and
42
it was very close. It would be very close to the same rate that we
have...I happen to own a piece of property over there, too. Those are the
questions I had.
FASCHING
We have... unless somebody else has jumped in here... on these lighting
districts and lighting in general, is that going back to the original
statement, one-third of the residential areas in the City have no street
lights. And I for one have felt for the last two years that the time has
come that we should encourage street lights on all the streets within our
City. Now, there's going to be some people, undoubtedly, that don't want
street lights, but I think the majority of them that, if approached and
know the story, would want street lights. I think that in that approach
you have to use a selling job and you have to tell them. We had one
recent incident on Pamela a few months ago where they created a lighting
district on that street, we showed them what we were going to give them,
and all of a sudden that was the end of that. Those that were i)
opposition in the first place used that, I feel, as a tool to convince,
some of the other people on the petition for the street lights to not go
for it. And they were only. offered one type of street light, which is the
high, bent-over sodiums...what was it that they were offered?
LOPEZ
It was a high-pressure sodiums.
FASCHING
But I don't think anybody in the City is going to want street lights
unless we have a choice of street lights for them that's going to be
compatible with their neighborhood and going to look nice on their
streets. They don't want lights like Baldwin Avenue on Pamela Road, nor
would we want them on our street. So, I think it's a matter of we say and
we try and sell these people on the desirability of having street lights,
the low cost involved on their part, hopefully,. to have street lights,
where we pick up the largest tab, but we make a package available to them
and we have a street light package developed, that they would have a
choice of maybe three or four different styles of street lights for their
neighborhood that would make their street look nice and not like just a
thoroughfare, in other words. It's got to look like a neighborhood. And
I think then we could sell a lot of people on having street lights. So,
I think we have to kind of agree that we're going to go on a campaign to
light up the rest of the City, come up with a package for people that
would make it very palatable as to what we want to do with their street,
how pretty it's going to look.. .because that's what they're basically
interested in, too, as well as light...and be flexible in our approach to
them. And I don't think we've had that flexibility in the past in our
approach with these people.
LOPEZ
Mr. Mayor?
FASCHING
Yes.
LOPEZ
If I could bring up something that I think is pertinent to this discus-
sion. Even if the City doesn't adopt or use what they call IES standards,
that's the Illuminating Engineers Standards that's generally accepted by
most cities and by most lighting engineers. Edison, in fact, endorses and
recommends those standards. But if the City does not use those, it has
to come up with some standards that are supportable and reasonably
consistent with sound engineering and design and safety standards. So il
we vary from that, at least from the recommended point of view, it puts
out somewhat of a risk, you might say. I think the attorney has indicate
so' in the past. But with those recommended standards, say, on the books
or that are adopted, the Council at anyone particular meeting, if there
is a certain amount of overwhelming dissatisfaction with the type of
standards that are recommended, the Council in its discretion can make
that decision at that point in time. But to make a certain standard, say,
available that isn't according to safety standards would be taking a very
large risk.
HARBICHT
What kind of deviation from standards are we talking about?
FASCHING
I don't know. What I'm talking about is the design. I think we've got
risk driving up and down any street in the City if you want to know the
43
truth, I mean as far as lighting is concerned. And that's been evidenced
by some of the lawsuits that we have. And I think that if somebody
[End of 'rape 2
Side 4, and beginning of Tape 3 - Side 5]
FASCHING
...create a nice atmosphere on those streets, and
that we have that have beautiful street lights.
standards are....
I've seen other streets
I don't know what the
HARBICHT
Are you talking about the design of the poles or the level of the light?
FASCHING
Design of the poles, the whole thing.
CIRAULO
The level of the light, the lumens would have to conform to the standards
or we're in trouble, I would think.
~ICHT
_IRAULO
Yeah, we just paid out $300,000 to somebody.
Yeah. So you're talking in terms of design, I would guess.
FASCHING
I'm talking design, right. But we have to give them a choice of design,
we can't have one type of light, and we've got to come up with
many. They have. to have a choice on what looks good on their street.
MARGETT
Not too many choices.
FASCHING
Well, not too many, no. But all you need are three or four. In the case
of Pamela Road, they didn't have any choice.
MARGETT
And then it went down.. .couldn't fly, is ,that what you're saying?
CIRAULO
They chose not to have any then. They said no.
FASCHING
But I think that if Joe could come up with some designs in that regard as
to what can be offered to the people, and they would say, "Hey, that's
beautiful. It's going to make our street much nicer. We're going to have
some light." Then they're going to get enthusiastic. But we have to sell
it to them, we have to have a sales package to present to them and they
can come down to City Hall and inspect, and then go after it. But the
main intent of this is that we go on a program to get street lights on the
rest of the City for the long range.
HARBICHT
Well, what's the program?
FASCHING
Well, to develop a package that would be palatable to people, that they
could look and choose and have selections on what could be put on their
street.
MARGETT
Do we have the lighting districts already established, is this what we
have here, or do you have to go through and 'establish other lighting
districts?
LOPEZ
'~mrn'
No. That's shown in the shaded areas, the existing district with various
zones.
If somebody puts street lights in, we put them into one of those
districts.
LOPEZ
Into one of those zones, right.
MARGETT
In other words, the districts are already established.
LOPEZ
That's correct.
MARGETT
Totally, throughout the community.
LOPEZ
Not totally throughout the community. There are only certain areas that
are zoned. Those shown in red are the streets that are lighted that are
not covered by a district or zone, so the General Fund actually picks up
those costs.
44
HARBICHT
And the ones that are white are the ones that don't have lights, and if
they opted for lights then they would be folded into one of the districts.
O.K. That's just a taxing mechanism.
FASCHING
I think it's the fact that the City gets behind a movement to try and
light up those areas without street lights, support it, has a package
available to those people that don't have street lights, then we'll put
it in their water bill and mail it to them.
LOPEZ
May I make a suggestion, Mr. Mayor.
FASCHING
Sure.
LOPEZ
What we can do is research what we can and report back to the Council with
regard to what is available.
FASCHING
Good.
, .n. "'" ,. ...,.., n"ok<n, " ,~
HARBICHT
George, you won't believe this, but
their water bill.
FASCHING
You already wanted to put a peacock in there or something...I forget what
it was.
MARGETT
Also, the procedure (that we. used in the past in getting lights, or the
citizens have used, has been, I think, a real obstacle course in finally
trying to get the lighting for their streets or to streets, whatever it
is. And is it going to be our posture to commit to having street lights
for the community, and go ahead and go through the hearing process for
these little districts and then vote yea or nay on it like we have the
sidewalks before, Bill, or....
WOOLARD
Well, you'd have to in order to have this taxing mechanism (inaudible).
MARGETT
But we're not going to have to worry any more about people trying to get
a petition to City Hall to try and get their street lights. We're going
to take the initiative on this, is that what we're saying?
FASCHING
No, I think we're going to try the other approach first.
MARGETT
The petition?
FASCHING
Well, I think this is where we try and sell the people on how attractive
it would be to have lights on their street, and then I think...well, my
thought was we'd still stick with the petition....
MARGETT
I think we're right back in the same thing, George.
FASCHING
Well, not necessarily, because we've never been on a real campaign to get
this done.
MARGETT
Well, that means that everybody has to go running around, signing up,
.saying this is what they want, and then they bring it in to us? Don't we
feel that it's necessary for this community from the standpoint of traffil
safety, from the standpoint of...I'm sure Chief Johnson can substantiat
some of the problems that we have on unlighted streets, and it's for th
safety and protection of the people within the community. I would sa
that we go.ahead and handle it like we used to handle sidewalks. And i
the people want them, fine...they're willing to pay $200 or $50 a month
or whatever the situation, fine. They want to choose this particular
light, that's fine. But at least then you'd be able to do it.
FASCHING
Yeah, but you can't put that street light on that street for five houses
unless all five of those people, or at least the majority, wanted that
street light.
MARGETT
Well, that's what the hearing process is for, right?
HARBICHT
You think we should initiate it?
45
MARGETT
Yes.
HARBICHT
Recause a lot of these people don't want street lights.
MARGETT
Well, then, we'll find out.
HARBICHT
You mean you just want to impose it on them.
MARGETT
No, if they don't want it. I don't believe in sticking it down their
throat, but I think it's too difficult at this point to have people
running around signing petitions up and down and trying to get everybody
to handle it that way. I think that it should be offered by the City in
the form of a hearing, and if these people want it, fine, then I think we
should go ahead and do it. Right now I think it's far too difficult for
citizens to be able to get street lights in their particular neighborhood.
t. ICHT
GETT
Well, let me present an opposite viewpoint.
Absolutely.
HARBICHT
If we do what you suggest, I could argue that it's far too difficult for
those people to have to schlepp down here to stop it.
MARGETT
Well, let me give you a real, actual instance. This is on Wistaria where
I live. The little lady across the street decides let's get street
lights. Fine and dandy. She says, "I'll take a third of the street."
And I said, "Well, I'll take a third of the street." And she got three
people to take a third of the street. Ry the time the third guy got'it,
his house was sold, the house was torn down, and guess what happened to
the petition. ..gone. Now, she's crippled at this point, she can't go out,
she doesn't want to do it again, she's done it once. I think it's a
tremendous imposition to let people run out there and do it, and I think
the mood of the community is to have street lights.
HARRICHT
Well, I can give you for instances of just the opposite thing. When we
have, in the past year or two, we've had several cases where they've gone
through the process, we've approved them, we put them into lighting
districts, and put street lights up.
MARGETT
Well, you can do it that way, but that's a difficult...why are we making
it difficult for people to get street lights?
FASCHING
Will somebody explain to me the hearing process, because I'm not fully
knowledgeable on that.
LOPEZ
Well, I think I can explain the first question Mi. Margett brought up.
The reason we ask them to take the petition around is because if they
didn't, then staff would have to do that. And if staff goes through the
entire process and it turns out that the majority of people don't want the
lights, we've expended a lot of time and effort and City money just for
an effortless....
I. :::
OPEZ
Then those people have to come in and say, "We don't want the lights."
O.K., well how do we handle sidewalks?
Well, that's through a different process.
MARGETT
Well, can't we use the same process that we handle the sidewalks?
LOPEZ
It's a completely different act of the Streets and Highways Code. This
1911 Act and the 1919 Act go hand in hand in producing the street lighting
maintenance.
MARGETT
What about the petition process to get it done? I mean, the mechanics of
being able to pay for it and so on and so forth, that's fine, but what
about allowing the people to be able to do it without a petition?
LOPEZ
Well, that's what I was answering, is that if they didn't petition, staff
would have to take that petition around to get the information, or how
46
would we get the information to City Hall in order to know if they want
the lights?
MARGETT
Well, my thought on the thing, Joe, was to go ahead and, if there was a
group of streets that had not been assigned to a lighting district, or
whatever, that you would have a hearing and ask those people, "Are you
willing to...it's going to cost $50 a year on your tax bill to be able to
get street lights in your particular community, on your three streets or
four streets, whatever it amounts to." And if they say, "Yeah, I think
it's a great idea," fine, let's do it.
LOPEZ
I think the problem with that is at the hearing you can't get all those
people involved at that hearing.
MARGETT
Can't you notice them?
I
LOPEZ
You can, but you won't get all the people involved.
CIRAULO
How many are going to show up?
HARBICHT
But you're forcing them to come down here.
CIRAULO
It's almost easier to go to their house and ask them.
HARBICHT
Basically, what we'd be saying is that we're going to put a $500 liability
on your tax bill, plus $50 to $100 a year unless you come down here and
stop us.
FASCHING
We'd need the Rose Bowl, I think. My approach, what I thought, was...now
we come back to forcing something down their throat on that process. But
if we developed a package and determined...you talk about staff time for
a hearing process and the expense involved in that...maybe, what I would
like to propose, is that we determine what streets do not have street
lights, which you've already done, and we develop a mailing list of those
streets; we prepare a package with comments from the Police Department as
to the advisability of having street lights, the time has passed not to
have street lights, and we incorporate in there the mechanics to put
together a petition on your street, and we show them some examples of the
lights that we can furnish them to make them attractive on their streets;
and we put together a whole little package and we mail it to all these
people. And then we see what kind of results we get out of that at the
offset. Our cost in doing that is the development of the package and the
mailing to those people. But I think it is maybe a better approach than
telling them we're going to do it, and if they don't come down to a public
hearing and that.... And, hopefully, we get a large enough response to
that. And I feel that if it's sold correctly, people are going to buy it.
LOPEZ
Mr. Mayor, I'd like to bring up something. Since we're talking about 30
percent or pretty close to that figure, putting that package together and
mailing to each individual on that 30 percent...
FASCHING
That's what I'm talking about.
LOPEZ
...is going to be pretty expensive...I don't have the figure before mel
But what if we rewrote this article that was in the Newsletter, and mak
figures as an average rather than a range, $50 to $250; make it a mor
attractive, sellable package, and develop something that we can bring bac
to your Council with regard to the alternates involved and indicate that
in the Newsletter.
FASCHING
Well, you're trying to save the cost on the mailing? How much money are
we going to involve?
LOPEZ
The mailing is incidental. It's the time in looking up the names and
addresses of everybody who is not there, which would be....
FASCHING
Well, can't we just use "Occupant" on the street that doesn't
lights? I mean, mailing lists are not too hard to come by.
pull streets out of any zip code that you want.
have street
And you can
47
LOPEZ
FASCHING
12.
UNDERGRD'G.
UTILITIES
HARBICHT
t""'"'
HARBICHT
FASCHING
MARGETT
FASCHING
MARGETT
LOPEZ
. MARGETT
LOPEZ
l~mIT
. LOPEZ
CIRAULO
FASCHING
LOPEZ
Well, we could do either one. I'm just bringing up the points that....
If we could, we'd like to come back to Council with....
Well, let's see what kind of a package you're going to come up with, and
then we'll decide which way to go with the package, how's that? Is that
all right with everybody? O.K.
Basically, at one time the Council established a list of priorities and
we're just kind of following that. It's a real slow process because it
takes forever to get up enough money to do.
It's an expensive process, and Edison does furnish us some money for that,
but....
Yeah. That's basically the citizens are furnishing the money; Edison's
just collecting it....
Who put it on the agenda?
I did.
Do you have some specific things in mind, Bob? Other than Second Avenue
that looks deplorable?
Yeah, right. Or El Monte Avenue, which is even more deplorable. This
thing is titled Potential Underground Utility District Projects, and I
don't know whether "District" is in the context of a...is that a district,
again...a taxable district?
No, it's not an assessment district. The only time that a property owner
pays a portion for undergrounding is that which he needs to do on his own
property to connect to the underground. And that's not an assessment or
a tax, that's his own cost through his own contracting.
Well, I'll tell you, the way that Edison is stringing poles in Arcadia is
turn-of-the-century techniques. They've been doing that since 1900. You
know, and if we're trying to move into the next century, I would say that
some technique, Mr. Mayor, to be able to facilitate that more rapidly than
waiting for Edison Company to do it...I don't know what that is,
particularly, but it's certainly a priority I think that we should be
giving the communities to try to get rid of some of this obtrusiveness
that we have with these telephone lines and power lines. I don't know, I
guess what I'm looking for is to speed up the process. And that takes
money.
There is one vehicle...lf I can interrupt just for a moment. The Edison
Company does have a system where you can borrow three years in advance.
So, in other words, if we're getting $260,000 a year average, Edison will
allow you to borrow three years in advance to cover a particular project
that the City Council wishes to go forward on. But it's only three years.
Plus that delays the second project.
That's right.
And that probably doesn't cover all that much either.
about just one strip.
You're talking
While we're talking about that process and the cost involved, and I
mentioned Second Avenue because it's Edison Pole City, but then it brings
back to mind another thing you said, that there was some talk in the past
about widening Second Avenue also.
Yeah. It's in the Circulation Plan Element of the General Plan.
to be an 84-foot right-of-way with four lanes, and it's planned
because of the traffic volume that's anticipated.
And it's
that way
48
FASCHING
Where do we stand on that street as far as volume and everything....
LOPEZ
It's approaching. It's got a few years...we only have about....
FASCHING
We haven't acquired any right-of-way?
LOPEZ
We only have about 30 percent.
FASCHING
Of the right-of-way. What kind of money are we talking about if we widen
that street, and acquiring the rest of the right-of-way and...that would
involve undergrounding those lines then, at the time you would....
Except they're on both sides of the streets and you're only going to widen
one side, right?
FASCHING
Yell, at the time of widening, that's when we recommend doing Second
Avenue. What we've got on your package here, No. 14, Second Avenue,
that's $1,100,000 just for the distribution lines. If we were considerin
the transmission lines and the distribution lines, that amount would b
about $5,500,000.
Anybody else have any questions on the utilities?
LOPEZ
HARBICHT
Well, basically,
are incredible.
we have an unsolvable problem here. The economics of it
We could spend a whole year's budget just on this page.
13.
ARA ISSUES
FASCHING
So moving right on, possibly, ARA issues.
HARBICHT
Well, I'd like to make ARA a separate study session.
FASCHING
O.K.
LOJESKI
Well, could we kind of talk about maybe a time or day or something?
FASCHING
On ARA? I think that's a good idea. How about two weeks from tonight?
Do you want to do it then?
MARGETT
Don't you have budget that night?
FASCHING
May 18, that's on Monday. How about we have an afternoon study session
on ARA at, say, about 3 o'clock. Is that convenient for everybody on a
given day?
HARBICHT
I'm gone for the next three weeks. I'm going to be in Europe.
FASCHING
When are you leaving?
HARBICHT
I'm leaving a week from today or a week from tomorrow, and I'll be back
on June 10.
FASCHING
O.K., then we'll do it after June 10 or we do it before.... I"
I'd rather do it after for two reasons. One, I don't have much time
available to me now. But, second, I think we've got a lot of reports tha
are going to be coming back to us in the next two to four weeks on things
that we've discussed tonight.
HARBICHT
CIRAULO
We're going to have to adopt a budget, too.
HARBICHT
Oh, yeah, we've got a little item of a budget. So it might be better
to...you know, Rome wasn't built in a day.
FASCHING
O.K. Is it all right with everybody else on ARA? O.K., good. Why don't
we wait until you come back and then we'll set the date.
HARBICHT
O.K., great.
49
14.
OTHER ITEMS
FASCHING
CIRAULO
FASCHING
MARGETT
FASCHING
r""
FASCHING
HARBICHT
FASCHING
MARGETT
FASCHING
LOJESKI
(Citizen Service
Resume's)
I(NeW Council-
member)
Other items. Mr. Ciraulo?
I have nothing.
Mr. Margett?
Nothing, Mr.
beneficial.
Mayor, other than I think
I think we've done a lot....
the meeting has been very
We're not through yet. We've got a long way to go...Matters from Staff,
Elected Officials. Any other items you want to talk about right now?
Me? Yes. I would like to see the City Clerk attending our meetings that
are closed session meetings...the change in policy that the City Council's
got into. And I think you have a situation where the City Clerk is an
elected official in the community and I think it would be beneficial to
have an official person to take notes and keep records and that sort of
thing.
Mr. Harbicht, do you want to comment on that?
Well, out of the blue...I don't know enough about the background of how
other cities do it and what the appropriate thing is.
Mr. Margett?
Well, I can only go on the past. We always had the City Clerk in prior
meetings when I was on Council before, for the reasons that Dennis gave.
It was a question of keeping records, keeping us posted. I would lean
that way, to be honest with you, because I think that there's a lot
of...like tonight, if we were in a skull session and we were relying,
maybe, on Bill Woolard to take information down or Mike, or whoever, it
may not be all inclusive. And I think that service is important when
we're doing business with the City and we have to know where everything
is coming from.
The City Attorney has just informed me that this particular item we can
discuss in closed session, and I suggest that perhaps we do that, in
closed session. But I think we should all have some time to. ..we have to
go back to closed session after we conclude this meeting tonight, so I
don't think tonight would be appropriate. Perhaps we can do it in closed
session next Tuesday night. Is that agreeable with everybody?
Two other items, please. Another one is I'd like to see a policy...and
it's just a very simple policy.. .to communicate back with our .citizens
that do send in applications, particularly for commission appointments.
Many times the commission is filled, there's not an opening at the time,
and I've heard this from a number of people who have sent their resume
back and said did the City receive it. And I think just a standard little
form letter, "We've received your application. Thank you very much. The
Council at the appropriate time will respond." A little PRo The last
idea is, being a former Councilmember, it's not that important. But I
remember when I first went on the Council 10 years ago. There were a
number of things that you learned what to do, how to do it, and what was
available to you just simply by sitting in the meetings. And sometimes
it took six months to a year and you finally said, "Gee, I didn't know
that was available to us." And what I would like to propose is an actual
formulation of a, call it a New Councilmember Manual. So when a new
Councilman comes on board, or even in a case, for example, like Bob, who's
been away from the Council for a good period of time, he doesn't have to
all of a sudden again find out by osmosis a lot of this stuff. He's sworn
into office and the election happens, he's given this manual, it can be
added to, subtracted from, as time goes on, and it would just save I think
a whole lot of questions. Maybe I'm thinking of something that other
people haven't found a need for. I certainly did when I first got on the
Council.
50
FASCHING
Yeah, I did, too. And the first place I' went was the League of California
Cities meeting, which starts tomorrow down in Irvine, for new councilmem-
bers and mayors. But I agree with you wholeheartedly about an introduc-
tion and briefing and everything on the City. I wonder how much work it's
going to be to put together a manual if that manual would be subject to
change as opposed to a process of maybe indoctrination or a system
whereby. . . .
CIRAULO
It could be a checklist,
LOJESKI
I don't think it has to be real involved. I'll give you an example.
Tonight we talked about Councilmember expense policy, In other words,
that little memo, an example, or whatever, gets put in there and it's
there, and that's policy.
FASCHING
I think that, Dennis, what I would think about that, what really WOUll
have been beneficial to me, was that when a new Councilmember, whethe
past Councilmember if he chooses or new Councilmembers, had a sort of
routing thing to where each department could spend some time and brie
that person on their department and have his own little checklist that he
could furnish to the Councilmember that he could then make up his own
little booklet, so to speak, giving him an insight into every department
within the City--Police, Fire, and all departments. Sort of an in-
doctrination for a six-hour period or something might be a lot more
beneficial and informative than reading something out of a book, and save
us the staff time of making up a manual and keeping it up to date. What
do you think about that?
LOJESKI
I think communication is important. When I came on the Council ten years
ago, unless I had one Councilman who kind of walked me through the ropes,
it was like, everybody kind of sat there and said, "Let's watch the guy
fall on his nose and skin his. . . . " And not purposely, but that was kind
of the situation. I went off the Council eight years later and the day
I went to check out and turn my key in and everything with the Finance
Department, the question was posed to me, "Well, why didn't you join
PERS?" And I said, "I didn't know I could." Now, maybe I'm the stupid
one that I didn't ask at first, but I guarantee you eight years prior to
that I didn't even know what PERS was. So whatever the system, I think
it would be beneficial to a new Councilmember to have some sort of a
program like that.
FASCHING
O.K. Well, let's not just drop it there. I think a personal involvement
on a one-on-one basis with all members of the City for a new Councilmem-
ber, and where they could furnish him maybe something individually
relating to their department. And I think that one-on-one basis, maybe
that should be in addition to a manual, I don't know, but I think that....
WOOLARD
The two go together, though. If you get the information, you compile it
from the Manager's office, you get this basic material on PERS or Finance
tells you about (inaudible) and stuff like that.
FASCHING
I got information on those from Personnel at one time, but I think a
routing system for a new Councilmember through the City, and not one that
he..:. \
I'm not looking at something that's big and costly and that sort of thingl
Just something that can slowly be added to, and that type of item whic
has general information.
LOJESKI
FASCHING
How about when we have our new City Manager he can develop something along
those lines. O.K., something else?
LOJESKI
That's all I have.
FASCHING
Did I go around the room, I lost....
HARBICHT
Are we under Additional Item to Discuss or Matters from Elected Officials?
FASCHING
No, we're on Other Items.
51
HARBICHT I don't have any other items.
15.
MATTERS FROM
STAFF
FASCHING
MILLER
(Closed Session)
WOOLARD
, (Prop. Maint. &
,A/Pk,ng. Veh.
on Vacant Prop.)
IRAULO
WOOLARD
CIRAULO
MARGETT
LOJESKI
WOOLARD
HARBICHT
WOOLARD
CIRAULO
WOOLARD
FASCHING
LOPEZ
FASCHING
I' ALFORD
CITY CLERK
FASCHING
16.
MATTERS FROM
ELECTED OFFICIALS
ROWE
ADMIN. ASS'T.
O.K. Matters from staff.
One announcement for the record, under Government Code 54957, we.are going
to adjourn to a closed session with Alex McIntyre and the Manager Pro
tern to discuss the appointment and recruitment process for a City Manager.
In the handout materials I had (inaudible) was that update on the property
maintenance on Foothill Boulevard, and the other was one where we're
looking for direction from the Council to proceed with a couple of text
amendments dealing with parking vehicles on vacant property.
What do you want us to do, act on it tonight?
Just give us direction that you want us to proceed with it.
My feeling is yes.
Mine, too.
I have a question on property maintenance, Bill. I noticed the patch of
weeds out here adjacent to City Hall, which is actually on the Armory
site. Do we put them on the weed abatement list?
No, we've already sent them a notice...as well as...well, we sent George
a notice, too, George Watts...because we're property owners. But we're
already taking steps to try to get that abated.
I don't think George is going to take care of it.
I'm not sure the National Guard is either, but we are trying to get them
to do that. I don't know what's happened there, because it was going
along pretty good and then all of a sudden they just....
Well, the way it is right now they're going to tramp them all down...
they're allover the place, lying on the ground....
The National Guard, I guess they're out here resting and relaxing during
the days and they move back downtown for duty at night. That's all I
have.
Mr. Lopez?
No, sir.
Mrs. Alford?
I just want to mention that, you were discussing the orientation, I would
call it, for Councilmembers and a Councilmembers handbook. Those can
be.. . examples can be found in other cities. ..the handbook. I can make
some inquiries if you like.
O.K., would you please? O.K., Matters from Staff.
from staff that would like to bring,up anything.
there patiently through all this tonight.
Is there anybody here
You listened and sat
I just have one comment, Mr. Mayor, regarding the next Council meeting is
the Arcadia Beautiful Awards which will begin at 6:30. Traditionally
52
FASCHING
ROWE
FASCHING
HARBICH!
FASCHING
(Arc. Picnic
on the Green
6-20-92)
HARBICHT
FASCHING
HARBICHT
FASCHING
FASCHING
ALFORD
FASCHING
there is no pre-meeting. So if you need a closed session, we'll need to
adjourn to either the Manager's conference room or perhaps Personnel.
They'll be in here.
Because they'll be having a reception in here.
O.K. Anybody else want to say anything over there? O.K. Matters from
Elected officials. Mr. Harbicht?
I had a question. I had a couple of people mention to me a City concert
and I don't know anything about it.
Where have you been? I guess I'm the one that's going to have to fill you
in on it. There is a City concert going to take place. It's on June 20.
It's at the L. A. County Arboretum. It's a picnic concert as the one'I~'
you've been used to before. The title of this is the Arcadia Picni
Concert on the Green. This was my idea. I'm producing it. It's to brin
some spirit into the City and get people in the City to participate an
come out as part of Arcadia. We have basically avoided the sponsorship
of the City or it would get into other areas. So it's called Arcadia
Picnic Concert on the Green. The benefits of this concert, all the net
proceeds go half to the Arcadia schools and half to the County Arboretum.
The tickets are $9 pre-sale and $11 at the gate. The picnic starts at
4: 30, the show starts at 6: 30. The show will run until approximately
8:15. The show is Jack Lanz and his Big Band with a female vocalist. The
special guest star is Terry Gibbs--do you remember Terry Gibbs---on
vibes. . . very well known in music circles. The heavy emphasis on this
picnic is the picnic aspect. Children are free with their parents and
it's just geared to everybody in the community to come out and have a good
time. The schools are participating in the sale of the tickets through
their students. They'll all take home' a little flyer and sell a couple
of tickets, or if they can sell more, children will be given prizes for
selling tickets. Prizes will be given for the picnic spreads at the
Arboretum. All of the advertising on this will probably hit about ten
days from now. We'll be using the Chamber of Commerce sign locations with
inserts there, and there'll be window signs for different businesses. And
there'll be spots on cable television a la the last election where they'll
flash on and that type of thing. And part of the concert is being
underwritten, and we're trying to keep a very low budget so that we have
the highest amount of profit to the schools and the Arboretum. Past
concerts have had very high budgets and haven't made any money.
Hopefully, this budget is being kept low and we'll make a lot of money for
the schools.
Sounds like fun and I'll in all likelihood be there.
was because the last couple that I'm aware of were
What happens in that case?
I guess my concern
huge money losers.
O.K. .This concert is underwritten by a couple of business people in town
to guarantee no losses. The last concert that was put on at the Arboretum
had a budget of about $32,000, which was Louise Mandrell. Suffered a huge
loss. But this concert, the tentative budget we're working with right now
is about $12,000. ~,
Well, I'm assuming the City isn't on the book. J
No, the City has no involvement, none whatsoever. Matters from Electea
Officials. Joe? Nothing from me. O.K., I'd like to adjourn this meeting
then, and thank everybody from staff for sitting through this long
session, and I really appreciate your being here. I know it was long, and
we promise there won't be more than one a month of these.
And so I'd like to adjourn this meeting of the Arcadia City Council to 6
p.m. Monday, May 18, for a budget study session.
Aren't you going into a closed session right now?
Oh, excuse me. Call for a closed session.
53