HomeMy WebLinkAboutNOVEMBER 17,1987_2
29:0324
CITY COUNCIL MINUTES ARE TAPE RECORDED AND ON FILE IN THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK
I
INVOCATION
PLEDGE OF
ALLEGIANCE
ROLL CALL
MINUTE
APPROVAL
(Nov.3,
1987)
(APPROVED)
ORD. & RES,
READ BY
TITLE ONLY
1-
" PUBLI C
, HEARING
ANNEXATION
(14) TO
CONSOLIDATED.
LIGHTING
DISTRICT
(APPROVED)
1
RESOLUTION
NO. 5381
(ADOPTED) ~')/\
<<>
M I NUT E S
CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF ARCADIA
and the
ARCADIA REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 17, 1987
The City Council and the Arcadia Redevelopment Agency met in a
regular session November 17, 1987 at 7:30 p. m, in the Arcadia
City Hall Council Chamber.
Monsignor Charles Donahue, Our Lady of the Angels Chapel
Mayor Charles E. Gilb
PRESENT: Councilmembers Chandler, Harbicht, Lojeski, Young and Gilb
ABSENT: None
On MOTION by Councilmember Lojeski, seconded by Councilmember Young
and CARRIED, the Minutes of the Regular Meeting of November 3, 1987
were APPROVED. .
It was MOVED by Councilmember Harbicht, seconded by Councilmember
Lojeski and CARRIED that Ordinances and Resolutions be read by title
only and that the reading in full be waived.
The Engineer's Report has been previously submitted to the City
Council for review and this hearing is scheduled, as noticed, to
receive any protests to the proposed annexation of lands, No
written protests have been received.
Mayor Gilb declared the hearing open and Mrs. J. Yang, 1001 S.
Fourth Avenue, asked for and received clarification of her concerns
regarding street lighting procedures. Councilmember Harbicht advised
Mrs. Yang that up to the present time she had not been paying for
street lights; that now with the improved lighting,she will be
paying her share .,. these assessments are reflected on the property
tax bills.
No one else desiring to be heard, the hearing was CLOSED on MOTION
by Councilmember Lojeski, seconded by Councilmember Young and
CARRIED,
Whereupon the City Attorney presented, explained the content and
read the title of Resolution No. 5381, entitled: "A RESOLUTION OF
THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF ARCADIA, CALIFORNIA, ORDERING THE
ANNEXATION TO THE ARCADIA CONSOLIDATED LIGHTING DISTRICT (ANNEXATION
NO, 14)". '
It-was MOVED by Councilmember Chandler, seconded by Councilmember
Harbicht and CARRIED on roll call vote as follows that Resolution
No. 5381 be and it is hereby ADOPTED,
AYES:
NOES:
ABSENT:
Councilmembers Chandler, Harbicht, Lojeski, Young and Gilb
None
None
-1-
11 /17/87
29:0325
2. JOINT MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL/ARCADIA RtOEVELOPMENT AGENCY
2a.
ROLL CALL
2b.
MINUTE
APPROVJ~L
(Nov. 3,
1987)
(APPROVED)
2c.
PUBLI C
HEARING
(DDA -
Emkay)
(APPROVED) f\
,\ \l..'
"
.t,,-fi
~
.'
\ 0\', r\ : ~
PRESENT: Councilmembers Chandler, Harbicht, Lojeski, Young and Gilb
ABSENT: None
On MOTION by Councilmember Young, seconded by Councilmember Lojeski
and CARRIED, the Minutes of November 3, 1987 were APPROVED.
Staff advised that this is a joint public hearing before the City
Council and the Arcadia Redevelopment Agency to consider a Disposition
and Development Agreement (DDA) with Emkay Development Company, a
Division of Morrison Knudsen, and the Redevelopment Agency.
"We started the process with an Exclusive Right to Negotiate (ERN)
executed and approved October 6, 1986. Since that time there have
been six extensions of the ERN due to continuing negotiations with
Emkay, but essentially these were due to negotiations with the
Derby Restaurant to effect a land exchange. We were unable to
succeed with that land exchange and the result was the Agency
adopted an Owner Participation Agreement (OPA) in October which
allowed the Emkay DDA to proceed. The major points of this DDA
are as follows:
1
"The Agency proposes to sell the site, 10.62 acres, to Emkay for
$11,50 per square foot. The gross land sale proceeds are
$5,332,737,00. This value is supported by Mr, Taylor Dark, a
reuse appraiser hired by the Agency who established the value
based upon the uses of the site and the Emkay proposal at $11.80
per square foot. From these gross land sale proceeds are two
deductions: $156,000 for the offsite improvements that are
essentially the public access street into the development and
the second is $14,540 for a six foot strip between the Derby's
Lot 19 and Hampton Inns, This last amount is to be paid Oecember
of 1988, The net price, therefore, of land sale proceeds is
$5,162,198.or $11.16 per square foot. In addition to the basic
land sale proceeds, there are obligations on Emkay to construct
and to build the offsite improvements in and around the site,
Those amount to $400,000 - $450,000. Emkay, of course, is expected
and required to build under the DDA two hotels and two office build-
ings, The two hotels that are proposed at this time are Residence
Inns by Marriott and Hampton Inns by Holiday Inn. The Residence
is approximately 120 units; the Hampton is 132 units. In addition,
they are required to build two office buildings; one of which is
36,000 square feet; one of which is 46,800 square feet, All of
the buildings are to be completed by September of 1990, The Agency, 1
in its turn, is to use its best faith efforts to get the City to
construct undergrounding throughout the site, This process was
begun in July of this year when the City approved the Resolution
to establish the Underground District 12 and work is now proceeding
in that regard.
"In the DOA Emkay has an option to purchase remnant parcels result-
ing from the Derby OPA. These parcels are the ones behind the
Derby Restaurant and the ones that are on Huntington where Mr,
Build is at this time. They have this option until December 31, 1988
to purchase the property for $11.50 per square foot.
r d::. 'I f, \ ~ ,";' I
. -2~
.
,
~i .' . I, j.'
11 /17 /87
29:0326
1
"I wi 11 not go into the schedul e of the OOA except to point out
that the escrow is proposed to close February 19, 1988. That,
however, is'based' upon the Rule 20A undergrounding schedule proposed
by Edison. Edison now says they can begin their work ,on April 4.
The escrow will take place approximately 45 days prior to the date
that Edison starts their work, As it stands now that date is
February 19,1988. However, it may, for reasons outside the cc,ntrol
of the Agency a~d the developer, slip back. In the event that it
does, the ODA permits Emkay to purchase the Residence Inn property,
and the Kiewit West property under a separate escrow.
"The Environmental Impact Report for this project was prepared by
Atlantis Scientific. A representative of that Company, Jerry Moore,
is in the audience to respond to any questions the Agency or
audience may have. The two basic concerns raised in the EIR are
housing and transportation. The housing problem relates to the
fact that 35 units of housing, of people to be displaced, As it
stands now, the problem is basically met, We have only five parties
remaining. We believe they will be gone from the site by November 20,
There are two commercial tenants remaining. We believe those also
will be gone' by November 30 of this year. As far as transportation
and traffic, the study indicated that there will be significant
impacts on Huntington Drive, particularly at four intersections:
Santa Anita and Huntington, First and Huntington, Second and Huntington
to Fifth and Huntington. The level of service at those intersections
will decrease from Level C to Level 0, However, because the City
on race days uses police to manually run traffic through town, that
mitigates and lowers the level of delay or improves level of service
above the Level D.
1
"The cost of the project is estimated tC' be $8.1 million in net
proceeds. The Agency has received approximately $711,000 in rents
over the life of the project, so the total project is really about
$8.8 million dollars.' The,:net land sale is $5.1 million dollars as
mentioned above, which leaves a gap of around $3,0 million dollars.
The Agency expect to receive revenue from this project in the year
1992 of about $434,000 for tax increment. We expect to receive to
the City around $371,000 in transient occupancy tax or bed tax from
the hotels as well as $8,400 in business license and utility users
taxes, The total of all of those revenues is about $813,400. That
increases in, future years until 1993-94, when the combined income
is around $853,000. With that kind of return on our investment,
we expect to amortize the $3,0 million gap within 6 to 7 years.
"Present in the audience this evenin~ is Rick Smith, Vice President,
of Emkay and Jerry Marty who handles the construct'ion for that firm,
Also with him are representatives of Grubb & Ellis, who are the
leasing agents for the project.
"Pursuant to the requirements of t~e Health & Safety Code, the
Agency has published a notice in the papers for t~G weeks
pr'eviously and has prepared the Disposition Report which is
attached to your package,"
Councilmember Harbicht rioted that Emkay will have an",option to
purchase certain eroperties, but part of this i5 property that the
City may want to exchange for other property, Does this not take it
out of the, City's control? Staff replied that Emkay will try to
make a land exchange, It is a non-exclusive option, It is
advantageous to both parties because we can still carry out land
exchange,
This is a public hearing and the Agency is required to take public
testimony.
Mayor/Chairman Gilb declared the hearing open.
Rick Smith, 1500 Quail, Suite 550, Newport Beach, stated that any
remainin~ differences are resolvable in a short period'of time and
there is nothing that will stand in the way of performance.
-3- 11/17/87
29 :0327
No one else desiring to be heard, the ,hearing was CLOSED on
MOTION by Councilmember Chandler, seconded by Councilmember
Lojeski and CARRIED,
Staff then read the titles of the 'following Resolut;0ns:
RESOLUTION :' Resolution No. ARA-129, entitled: "A RESOLUTION OF THE ARCADIA
NO. ARA-129\)' REDEVELOPMENT JlGENCY CERTIFYING A FINAL ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REPORT
(ADOPTED)^" PREPA~Er IN CONNECTION WITH THE PROPOSED SALE, DISPOSITION AND
'" DEVELOPMENT OF CERTAIN PROPERTY PURSUANT TO THE TERMS OF A
( , ~'( DISPOSITION AND DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BY AND BETWEEN THE ARCADIA
'{. REDEVElOPMENT AGENCY AND EMKAY DEVELOPMENT COMPANY".
RESOLUTION "Resolution No. ARA-130, entitled: "A RESOLUTION OF THE ARCADIA
NO. ARA-130 ~ REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY APPROVING A CERTAIN DISPOSITION AND
(ADOPTED) DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BY AND BETWEEN THE ARCADIA REDEVELOPMENT
;\.1\ AGENCY AND EMKAY DEVELOPMENT COMPANY (~:ORTH~,IDE PROJECT)".
<z ,')
RESOLUTI ON J
NO. 5382
(ADOPTED)
1
Resolution No. 5382, entitled: "A RESOLUTION OF THE ARCADIA
CITY COUNCIL APPROVING A CERTAIN DISPOSITION AND DEVELOPMENT
AGREEMENT BY AND BETWEEN THE ARCADIA REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY AND
EMKAY DEVELOPMENT COMPANY (NOR1HSIDE PROJECT) ",
It was MOVED by Councilmember Harbicht, seconded by Councilmember
Lojeski and CARRIED on roll call vote as follows that Resolution
No. ARA-129, Resolution No. ARA-130 and Resolution No. 5382 be
and they are hereby ADOPTED.
AYES:
NOESD:
ABSENT:
Councilmembers Chandler, Harbicht, Lojeski, Young and Gilb
None
None
1
11 /17/87
-4-
1
I
,
29 :0328
2d.
DEMOLITION On October 16, 1987, City staff solicited bids from demolition
CONTRACT WITH contractors for clearance of the Northside Development Site in
THREE-D anticipation of a Disposition and Development Agreement with Emkay
SERVICES Development Company. The DDA requires that the Redevelopment Agency
(Northside "\ clear the site and perform rough grading work as preparatory work
Project) \f to close of escrow.
{APPROVED)",
~"i^
It was MOVED by Counci1member Harbicht, seconded ty Counci1member
Lojeski and CARRIED on roll call vote as follows that the Arcadia
Redevelopment Agency contract with Three-D Services for demolition
services for the Northside Project in an amount not to exceed
$125,000 ($113,698 plus 10% contingency) and that the Executive
Director be AUTHORIZED and directed to execute said contract. The
contract is to be in a form and content approved by the Agency
Counsel.
AYES:
NOES:
ABSENT:
Counci1members Chandler, Harbicht, Lojeski, Young and Gi1b
None
None
2e.
SOILS TESTING The Emkay DDA requires that the Agency submit a soils report
& REMOVAL certifying the soils are clear of toxicity and compacted by
THREE-D February 12, 1988. Because of the limited amount of time to remove
SERVICES tanks and polluted soil (if any), and obtain an L. A. County Closure
(Northside Permit{s), especially in light of the holiday season and the
Project) possibility of inclement weather, an urgent need to obtain special
(PULLED FROM <\ services from a responsible contractor exists, Consistent with
AGENDA) ~'the Arcadia Municipal Code Section 2844.1, an urgency exists re-
'\ qui ring selection of the most available source of this service.
" No bids were received from the six firms receiving bid packets.
< "if
" It was MOVED by Counci1member Chandler, seconded by Counci1member
Harbicht and CARRIED on roll call vote as follows that this item
be pulled from the agenda and taken up at a future meeting.
2f.
ADJOURNMENT
3.
AYES:
NOES:
ABSENT:
Counci1members Chandler, Harbicht, Lojeski, Young and Gilb
None
None
The meeting adjourned to 6:00 p. m" December 1,1987.
AllDlENCE PARTICIPATION
Herb Fletcher, 175 West Lemon, stated, in part, that he had
attended a recent Planning Commission meeting and remarked again
on the concerr.s about large buildings constructed on small lots.
There has been much controversy on this and many requests for
the Planning Commission to put restrictions on the size of the
buildings. He reiterated his suggestion given at a former meet-
ing that perhaps it would be a good idea for the City Council,
Planning Commission and Department to tour the City together
to see exactly what the problems are and what areas may be affected,
and hopefully come up with an answer. Also, last time he appeared
before Council he put in a plea. for homeowner's who come before
Council on an appeal from a Homeowners' Association decision to
be able to do so without paying a fee. Perhaps there could be a
system whereby the loser pays the fee,
11 /17/87
-5-
4.
4a, j
PUBLIC
HEARING
SCHEDULED
(Dec.1 ,1987)
4b.
PUBLIC
HEARING
SCHEDULED
(Dec. 1,1987)
4c.
STREET
LIGHTS -
DDWNTDN
AREA
(Job
No. 632)
4d.
CONTRACT
AWARD
(Centrifugal
Chill er - ",Q
Job No. ~
637) / ......
'<..
J
29:0329
Elaine Larkin, 1101 Greenfield, stated, in part, that she had lived
in Arcadia for 40 years. She wondered why it should be necessary
for homeowners who live in the southern part of the City to form
Architectural Review'Boards and Homeowner Associations. Council-
member Harbicht replied that it is not necessary, Homeowners who
live in some of the northern parts of the City have voted to have
Homeowner. Associations which provide for another layer of approval
for property modifications .and more stringent requirements. Also,
they can vote it out of they later decide they don't want it. Council-
member Harbichtnoted that.in most cases requ~sts~ are granted; only
a few are appealed to the City Council. Mrs. Larkin said she had
contacted the Planning Department because she did not like the
present zoning south of Huntington Drive. CouncilmembEr Chandler 1
stated that a homeowners association in her area would not accomplish
what she says she wants to change. Certain areas in the northern
part of the City were developed under certain a.greements; other
parts of the City developed under different provisions. Structures
being built now meet the requirements. Mayor Gilb suggested that
homeowner association groups will be meeting with the Planning
Commission and City Council at the next Council meeting, 6:00 p, m.,
December 1, 1987 and invited Mrs. Larkin to attend,
CONSENT ITEMS
SCHEDULED for December 1. 1987 Text Amendment 87-15 limiting adult
entertainment establishments to the M-l and M-2 zones, subject to
certain locational requirements and a Conditional Use Permit.
SCHEDULED for December 1, 1987 Text Amendment 87-16 establishing
a maximum allowable percentage of floor area set aside for office
space in industrial zones.
APPROVED plans and specifications and AUTHORIZED the City Clerk
to advertise for bids for the installation of 42 new energy efficient
street lights and underground conduit on Bonita, California, Diamond,
Eldorado and Genoa Streets. A Negative Declaration has been prepared
for the project pursuant to the pr'ovisions of the Cal ifornia Environmental
Quality Act. The cost of the project is $125,460 which will be funded
from Community Development Block Grant funds.
AWARDED the contract for replacement of existing centrifugal chiller,
Job No. 637, at the City Public Library to the low bidder', Baker
Engineering in the amount of $49,850.00. The amount of.$56,OOQ.OO
to be appropriated from Capital Improvement Program to cover the cost -
of engineering, inspection, contingencies, contract amount and re- 1
moval and disposal of insulation material; that any j,nfomalities
in the bid or bidding process be waived; and that the Mayor and City
Clerk be AUTHORIZED to execute a contract in a form approved by the
Ci ty Attorney.
4e.
CONTRACT ~WARDED the contract for tree maintenance program on various streets,
AWARD Job No. 635 to the low bidder, Golden Bear Arborists in the amount of
(Tree )\ $78,247.80. This project involves the trimming of 671 trees for
Maintenance ~\which funds in the amount of $84,225 have been budgeted in the 1987-88
Program - ~ Public Works budget. All informalities or irregularities in the
Job No. ~ bids or bidding process were waived and the Mayor and City Clerk were
635) <( AUTHORIZED to execute the contract in the amount of $78,247.70 in
form approved by the City Attorney.
- -......,...,.
11 /17/87
-6-
1
1
6b.
CLAIM OF 'On reconmendation of the City Attorney, the claim of Nondene Dean
MONDENE DEAN~.,: was DENIED on MOTION by Councilmember Harbicht, seconded by Council-
(DENIED) U' member Young and CARRIED on roll call vote as follows:
<(
5.
5a,
JOINT
CITY ISCHOOL I
ELECTIONS ';J
(Dec. 1, })
1987 .J-..
Agenda) I "-
"-..
6.
6a. J
ORDINANCE
NO. 1873
(INTRODUCED)
29 :0330
ALL OF THE ABOVE CONSENT ITEMS WERE APPROVED ON MOTION BY
COUNCILMEMBER CHANDLER, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER YOUNG AND
CARRIED ON ROLL CALL VOTE AS FOLLOWS:
AYES:
NOES:
ABSENT:
Council members Chandler, Harbicht, Lojeski, Young and Gilb
None
None
cm MANAG[R
Consideration of a City Charter Amendment which would consolidate
the City and School elections,
It was MOVED by Council member Harbicht, seconded by Council member
Chandler, and CARRIED on roll call vote as follows that staff be
directed to prepare a resolution providing for the consolidation
of City and School District elections 'for Council consideration 'at
the next meeting (December 1, 1987),
AYES:
NOES:
ABSENT:
Councilmembers Chandler, Harbicht, Lojeski, Young and Gilb
None
None
CITY ATTORNEY
The City Attorney presented for introduction, explained the
content and read the title of Ordinance No. 1873, entitled:
"AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF ARCADIA, CALIFORNIA,'
ADDING A DIVISION 7 TO PART 8 OF CHAPTER 2 OF ARTICLE IX OF THE
ARCADIA MUNICIPAL CODE TO SET OUT CONDITIONS AND PROCEDURES FOR
PERMITTING RECYCLING FACILITIES".
It was MOVED by Councilmember Young, seconded by Councilmember
Lojeski ard CARRIED on roll call vote as follows that Ordinance
No. 1873 be and it is hereby INTRODUCED.
AYES:
NOES:
ABSENT:
Councilmembers Chandler, Harbicht, Lojeski, Young and Gilb
None
None
A.YES:
NOES:
ABSENT:
Councilmembers
None
None
Chandler, Harbicht, Lojeski, Young and Gilb
6c.
CLAIM OF On recommendation of the City Attorney, toe claim of Rita
RITA Khurana (20th Century Insurance) was DENIED on MOTION by
KHURANA .;: Mayor Gilb, seconded by Councilmember Young and CARRIED on
(20th Century" ro 11 ca 11 vote as fo 11 ows :
Insurance) J
(DENIED) I;. AYES: Councilmembers Chandler, Harbicht, Lojeski, Young and Gilb
'" NOES: None
ABSENT: None
11 117/87
-7-
6d,
CLAIM OF
MARIA
SMOJLIW
(DENIED) ~
/; (}-
'-('
7.
8.
YOUNG
HARBICHT
LOJESKI
9.
ADJOURNMENT
29 :0331
On recommendation of the City Attorney, the claim of Maria
Smojliw was DENIED on MOTION by Councilmember Lojeski, seconded
by Councilmember Young and CARRIED on roll call vote as follows:
AYES:
NOES:
ABSENT:
Councilmembers Chandler, Harbicht, Lojeski, Young and Gilb
None
None
MATTERS FROM STAFF
None
MATTERS FROM ELECTED OFFICIALS
--I
Reference was made to a report on the recent combined CitYISchool
election in Duarte, The City Clerk will provide a report on costs
joint vs. separate elections for Arcadia.
Read a letter from a property owner whose home on Hacienda Drive
had been destroyed by fire:
"Will you please express my deepest gratitude and appreciation to
the Arcadia Fire Department, the Paramedics and the Police Depart-
ment for all of their hours of work on the night my home was
destroyed by fire -- October 25th. What may be salvaged in the
living room and den will be due to the superb technique used
by these men. I am indebted to Fire Chief Gerald Gardner, Battalion
Chief Ted Nichols, Fireme~ Marston and French; Police. Office Larry
Horowitz and many others whose names I do not have -- some just
said 'we all work together'. They all showed compassion, care and
friendship to a 36 year Arcadia resident. I am most grateful.
Sincerely, Elizabeth Marders,"
Inquired when the poles on the south side'of Huntingtcn Drive in the alley
were to comedown. 'Staff replied that it had been delayed first by
Edison and then by the earthquake; now scheduled to come down in
March of 1988. Also in connection with the upcoming meeting
between the Architectural Review Boards and Council, he would like
the Planning Commission members to be invited, Council concurred,
Said he would be unable to attend the Library Board meeting next
Thursday and perhaps someone else could attend,
Councilmember Lojeski adjourned the meeting in memory of Dr,
HissamuddinMaiwandi, aged 47, Arcadia surgeon.who passed away
a week ago this past Friday in the emergency room of the Arcadia
Methodist Hospital where he was taken with what was believed to be
a heart attack. His funeral was held.the following Monday, Accord- 1
ing to a medical staff coordinator for the Hospital" Maiwamdi was
a plastic surgeon and an expert at hand surgery. He was born in
Afghanistan, took preliminary medical training at the University of
Kabul and did advance work at New York University Medical Center.
In 1976 he joined the Methodist Hospital staff and became a partner
with Dr, Robert Costarella here in Arcadia. He recently h~d completed
a move into his new office which was called the Campus Medical Center
Building which he owned at the corner of Campus Orive and Santa
Anita Avenue, Dr, Maiwandi was stricken while taking a shower and
was rushed to the hospital. The cause of death was believed to have
been a heart attack. He is survived by his wife, Nafissa and their
two children, Nadia and Yosef of Arcadia and his mother who also
lives in California, For those people in the City who perhaps had
an opportunity, whether it be fortunate or unfortunate, to visit
11 /17/87
-8-
1
1
GILB
ADJOURNMENT
(Dec.l ,1987
6:00 p.m.)
ATTEST:
29 :0332
the emergency room when Dr, Maiwandi was on duty or was a patient
of his, he always had a great deal of compassion and was a very
conscientious physician and he will be certainly missed in the
community of Arcadia.
Mayor Gilb adjourned the meetin9 in memory of Catherine Mundy,
Catherine passed away in her sleep on November 7. She was 89
years of ago. She came to this City from Colorado, worked for the
Arcadia Tribune. In 1941 she wrote her first column, "Looking Westward
with Catherine" and later on she developed her own column, "The Mundy
Mail" which everyone in town looked to come out each week to find out
what was going on. I don't think that there was anything that was
good for Arcadia that she didn't support with her column, her personal
appearances, attendance at all of these functions and her enthusiasm.
This funeral service was at the San Marino Community Church. Catherine
received the PTA Award from the Council in 1954; she had a term on
the Arcadia Beautiful Commission for four years and was reappointed
but then did not serve; she was made an Arcadia Citizen of the Year
along\with Lyle Cunningham in 1983 and she was receipient of numerous
civic and professional awards. She was an honorary member of the
Assistance League of Arcadia; Las Alas Auxiliary of the Assistance
League; the Arcadians; the Alpha Auxiliary of the Visiting Nurse
Association of Pasadena, San Gabriel Valley; she was an honorary
member of Altrusa. It was pointed out later that she was very much
involved with the Arcadia Historical Society here in town and all
of those functions, She is going to be sorely missed because she
was truly a part of our community. She had a great sense of humor
and she said it was because of her Irish ancestry. She is survived
by her son, Paul, who is a former Arcadia school principal and a
daughter and son-in-law, Mary and Richard Cooper; seven grandchildren
and seven great grandchildren. They asked that the money instead of
flowers be used to establish a Catherine B.Mundy Lib~ary Fund at
the Arcadia Public Library to buy books, etc, for the Library and
so I would like to go along with Doctor Lojeski tonight in closing
in memory of Dr, Maiwandi and also Catherine Mundy.
Council adjourned to a CLOSED SESSION to discuss litigation at
8:40 p. m., reconvened and adjourned immediately thereafter at
9:00 p. m. to 6:00 p. m., December 1, 1987 in the Conference Room
to conduct the business of the Council and Agency and any Closed
Session, if any, necessary to discuss personnal, 1 itigation matters
and evaluation of properties. 0
" /17/87
-9-
I
MAYOR GILB
RO LL CALL
M/l.YO.R GI LB
HARB I CHT
""~ · -cd.~~,,~
...2-,!!;..,--~.'t:.(.r"~I""-f
UII.,.l". I r~ I - ut:'c. -I. I~Of
Joint ARB's - Council
This is a meeting of the Arcadia City Council and, under invitation to
the Architectural Review Boards of the City; the Planning Commission and
any other person in town that may be interested in the discussion, to
have a joint meeting. We will have a roll call, please, of the Council.
PRESENT: Councilmembers Chandler, Harbicht, Lojeski, Young and Gilb.
ABSENT: None
Before we s tart I'd 1 i ke to. as kif there are representati ves here from
the Highlands Homeowner's Association? Is anyone here from the Highlands?
Will you just hold your hand up, please, so we'll know? Thank you. How
about the Rancho Santa Anita Property Owner's Association? Ok, they're
here. Santa Anita Oaks Association..ok. The Rancho Santa Anita Resident's
Association.. are they here? Yes. The Village Association.. ok. How
about the Planning Commission? Is anyone here from the Planning Commission..
ok. We thought that tonight in order to get this started off we would have
. an over-view of what the meeting is concerning, and we'll have that from
Bob Harbicht. And, then after that we will ask our City Attorney, Mike
Miller, to" he has prepared some things of information to the Architec-
tural Review Boards - and we appreciate everybody coming. And then after
that, if we have time., we have to be done by seven because we have a
Pre-Council Meeting at seven, And, after that if we have some questions
or statements, or anybody would like to know, we would appreciate you
coming to the podium and stating your name; address; who you represent;
and what your question is. First we'll have Bob Harbicht, who will give
you an over-view of what we find the meeting to be about, And, then we'll
go in with our City Attorney, Mike Miller, Mr. Harbicht.
Thank you, I just want to give a little background and explanation as to
why the Council has asked all of you to be with us this evening for this
meeting, First, I'd like to point out that the purpose of the meeting is
not to discuss any specific cases or specific issues, and particularly any-
thing which is currently before the Planning Commission or the City Council..
we're precluded from doing that. And, just by way of general background,
I'd like to say that the Council supports the Architectural Review Boards
and the concept of Architectural Review Boards in those areas where the
people have chosen to have them. The Architectural Review Boards .. or
each of you who are serving on an Architectural Review Board,are an official
part of the Arcadia City government, The City Council has delegated author-
ity to the Architectural Rev iew Boards, in that, we wi 11. not approve buil d-
ing permits until the Architectural Review Boards have signed-off on the
areas of their concern. And so, as such, that makes each one of.you part
HARBICHT
Diet 1 Pg 2 - Dec. 1", 1987
Joint ARB's - Council
of the permit process. But, at the same time, while the Council has
delegated this authority, we can't delegate the responsibility and
relieve ourselves of the responsibility for what happens as part of that
procesS. And, we have, really, kind of an unusual situation with Archi-
tectural Review Boards, in that, in most cases when we've delegated author-
ity., such as, to our commissions and staff - we've appointed the commis-
sioners ". we've appointed the staff. But in the case of Architectural
Review Boards we've allowed someone else to appoint the representatives
to the boards. So, that's kind of an unusual relationship that we have,
and so the primary purpose of this meeting is to have the City Attorney I
explain what your role is; what rights you have; what responsibilities yo
have; what the possible pitfalls are if we don't all follow the rules...
Because as you're probably aware, the City Council - in fact, the entire
Arcadia City government operates under pretty stringent rules, and it's
very important that we all understand what those rules are so that we can
work within the rules that we have to deal with, And, I think that,. just
my way of kind of putting into a perspective what Architectural Review
is all about - I had occasion a couple of months ago., I was in England
and I was staying with some friends that are Englishmen, and they had been
in the United States the year before,. so we were talking about the
similarities and the differences between the countries and one of the
things that they were most amazed about was our 55 mile an hour speed
limit, And I said, 'Why are you so amazed about that?' And, they said,
"Because .America is the land of freedom.. individual freedom and we were
just amazed that there would be that kind of restriction put on your free-
doms." And I thought that was kind of an interesting comment, but it also
made me think about it, and that is, in fact, what we are.. we're a nation
of free people, and we're very very reluctant to put restrictions on our
freedom. And when we do put restrictions on our freedoms yqu have to havel
good reasons for doing it. And, so it's very important that we understand
I
HARBICHT
MILLER
Dict 1 Pg 3,- Dec, 1, 1987
Joint ARB's - Council
what the circumstances are that allows us to put these restrictions on,
And, for example, no level of government can just capriciously say, 'We
want this to be the law', It has to be based in law.., -it has to be 'based
on Constitutional rights. And so, everything that we do - whether it's
putting zoning on; setting a speed limit; or whatever it is - we can't
just do that,. it has to fit within the rights that are available to
government. And, I think most of us don't want government usurping our
freedoms, and the only time that we're willing to have that happen is when
what we're doing may harm someone else, or it's for the greater good. And
so, that's really the basis on which the Architectural Review Boards
the basis with which they operate is that they have situations where if
I do something on my property that's going to be harmful to ~ neighbor.
We can't just say that every house on the street has to be painted green,
because we thin~ that would look nice. We have to show that if I painted
my house a different color than green, that it's somehow harming my
neighbors. And so, these are the kinds of things that Mike Miller is going
to talk about, And with that background" I'd like to turn it over to Mike.
Thank you, Again, we're not going to talk about any specific case that's
pending at this point, although I may use some situation that has occurred
for an example. I'm going to try and avoid the appearance of lecturing
here, and hopefully, we'll have time for some questions. Those of you who
work with the City, and most of you did in one way or another in 1985 and 6
when we passed some amendments to the resolution., I reali~e that this
meeting tonight is just a natural evolution from that process. At that
time we indicated that as we go through'the process and experience it we
will probably get together again to review it; monitor the situation; and
for new members, in that case, reeducate as to what the requirements are.
Again, the purpose of this is to assure the continued strength of the
Diet 1 Pg 4 - Dec. 1, 1987
Joint ARB's - Council
MILLER
ARB process in Arcadia, and to mitigate against the possibility of a court
test. With that in mind, let me get into the very basics and define what
we do have in Arcadia, First of all, we do have design review - and it's
a form of delegated design review, which makes it somewhat unique, however,
it is legal and, by the way, I have re-researched most of the statutes
and case law on this subject.. and I won't take the time to cite that
this evening, but there is support for the process we do have in Arcadia,
and it's a process that has worked pretty well, But, it's a system of
delegated authority whereby the City Council, the primary governing body I
of the community, has delegated to somewhat private enterprises the
authority to make decisions on design which are, of course, appealable
back to the City Council, And, as creatures of delegated au~rity;and
also based on case law which states that, "Homeowners associationS are
quasi public agencies", That's the way the courts look at you.. now
whether you're delegated authority from the City or not,you have to be
very careful and judicious in exerting the authority that you do have.
And so, to maintain the system of delegated design review, it's very
important that you keep apprised of the resolution requirements and continue
to make sure that you provide the proper notice of your hearings; to make
sure that the hearings are handled in a very fair way; that the meetings
are open; that you keep appropriate records to document your decision
making; and also, most importantly, that when you make a decision, that
you base that on the material, or evidence, that has been presented to
you and that you use that material to support the findings that you make.
And, I know that this sounds a little bit onerous, and we understand that
you're all volunteers, basically, and it is somewhat of a thankless task,
but we hope to refresh your recollection on this process, and that will,
therefore, strengthen the process. I might add, that some of the more
I
Dict 1 Pg 5 - Dec. 1, 1987
Joint ARB's - Council
MILLER
recent decisions that I've seen,. and we've seen several from the Village
area, I've seen a marked improvement in the entire process,.. And we're
I
not saying any of you are, necessarily, violating the requirements, but
at the last hearing,
in the Village, for example, the appellant/commended the Village, although
he didn't like the decision, he did commend the Village Association for
according him proper due process, and he clearly admitted that he did have
a right to be heard., and that's the thing that we do like to hear. Because
one of the things a court can do is set aside your decision if they feel
that due process of law, that iS,basic fairness, has not been provided. So,
we are getting some good news in that area. One of the things that's
crucial to the process is the proper application of standards and criteria.
And I know a lot of what I say is easier said than done, but it's something
-
that you have to keep in mind, You have to be very familiar with the
resolution that governs your association., and most of them are the same
as far as design review goes, And, when you prepare your findings remember
that those are the reasons for your decision and it's not sufficient
enough just to state the finding in terms of the way the resolution reads.
For example, if the resolution says you can deny something if it's not
compatible or harmonious with the neighborhood, It's important to bring
that up, but.then you have to use... explain why it's not compatible and
harmonious. And, a good way of doing that is when you write your finding
use the word because, In other words, state it in terms of the resolution.,
I
it's not compatible or harmonious,. and then use the word "because", and
you
that will force/to articulate the reasons behind it, RecentlY,at a hearing
we had before the Planning Commission, there was very good testimony of
explaining the reasons,. and it's important to try to throw some of that
into your findings,so that we have more than just a conclusionary statement
coming out of the decisions that you make. Now, we've mentioned going to
Diet 1 Pg 6 - Dec. 1,1987
Joint ARB's - Council
MILLER
court" and I want to give you some, I think, somewhat, good news, A lot
of you are concerned about what happens,. are you going to be sued? Will
you be vulnerable for financial damages? It's my opinion and... that the
immunities that exist for government, and we have a lot of immunities that
cover us, for example, we're generally immune for liability with regard
to issuing or nonissuing of permits, And, basically, that's what we're
talking about here - whether permits are going to be issued or not to
build something. It's my feeling that that immunity extends to the t
homeowner"s associations, so, I do not believe you're really that vulnera
to financial damages, You're no more vulnerable in these cases than the
City is, The general type of lawsuit that would come out of something
like this would be to seek a court order to set aside the de~sion that's
made. That's something else we don't want because, you know, going to
court costs money, If we lose the court will set aside your decision.: then
ineffect the City's decision, and that's the type of thing we want to avoid.
But I don't think there's a substantial exposure to money damages, However,
I would like to say, I have seen the courts, during my experience, set aside
these immunities on occasion when they determine that the decision that's
made is totally arbitrary and unreasonable, and that the person hasn't
been treated fairly. So, if you just keep that in mind" but I don't think
your vulnerable to damages but in the extreme case, and I haven't seen
any of those come before the City recently. ,A bad decision could conceivably
evolve into some financial consequences.. although that is, somewhat, un-
likely. Now, concerning the standards I've talked about., we've all struggled
with harmonious, compatible, and whatever, and we've talked about, maybe,
after this thing is in the works for a couple of years, perhaps, amending
the code, One of the problems we've had is with this word "garish", and
will state now, having gone through many proceedings.., I really don't
II
I
I
Dict 1 Pg 7 - Dec, 1,1987
Joint ARA's Council
MILLER
think that word is necessary to the resolutions.. and, I'd like to hear
your thoughts on that. I think the words "excessive and substantially
unrel ated to the nei ghborhood" are enough.. we don't really need the
word "garish", so we might look into eliminating that from the particular
resolutions. Another problem that's come up on some occasions - and we
would like to hear your input on that, too, I think, would be the concept
of the neighborhood, We've had some struggling with regard to what is
the neighborhood? Frankly, I believe any court would say that the
neighborhood is the boundaries as determined by your association's
boundary lines.. which we have on a map here. I think the courts would
tend to look at that as your neighborhood for purposes of design review,
however, you may want to address that particular point. A f~l problem
area, which is real topical at this time, concerns the scope of your
decision making, and particularly in relation to some proposed amendments
that are before the Planning Commission now with regard to the mass, or
size of a particular dwelling. And, I think there's been, perhaps, some
confusion on that and I'd like to clarify that at this point. Any standard
that may be established as to home size would merely be., and in the case
of the pending ordinances, a maximum. It does not decrease the power of
the ARB in a case by case adjudication to determine that that house is
not compatible with the neighborhood. Now, we've heard builders get up
and say,t~at it meets code and, therefore, it's ok. And, this is a subject
that I know the Planning Commission has struggled with, But, let me state,
that under California Case Law, that even though something may meet the
code, the code also is made up of the design review process. And, therefore,
you know, within reason,. and I emphasize that, you can still adjudicate
something that may meet the code, and determine that it's not consistent
Dict 1 Pg 8 - Dec. 1,1987
Joint ARA's - Council
MILLER
with the resolutions that govern your activities. And, although, I don't
like to cite cases.. there is a case on that point which I'll be happy
to some you later, If there's any attorneys out there,you can keep that
case available - it's the Westly Investment Company, I think, versus San
Diego County,. and, it speaks directly to that particular point, But, I
do want to emphasize, we're talking about your right to adjudicate cases
on a case by case basis. The one thing the associations do not have
is rule making power. You do not have the power,. you have not been delel
it - in fact you couldn't be delegated that kind of power by the City Coun
to pass rules and policies or legislative type activity. Now, let me ex-
plain what I mean. The.. if a homeowner's association or an ARB decide
to make a rule or a policy or a practice,or said per se, "We'" not going
to approve any house that's this way,. or we're not going to approve any
house that's over 3,ODO square feet", and that was just your"before the
fact"rule.. that would be improper, I don't believe any of you are doing
that but I want to emphasize that it's important that your decision making
is a case by case determination based on the facts that are before you at
the time. So any rule like that, whether it's put in the formal language
or not,would be improper rule maki ng by an ARB, and you do not have that
authority. Finally, and again, you're perfectly free to ask questions..
in applying the standards as to compatibility and a harmonious.. they are
somewhat subjective, We all recognize that. However, again, California
Case Law has recognized the appropriateness of your right to make decisions
that are somewhat subjective as long as you've given the parties before you a
fair hearing and as long as you prepare proper findings. And, it's very
important, because we're talking about the police power here,that your
fi nd i ngs
proposed
and your decisions be based as much as possible on how this I
development or project or whatever it may be affects the appearan
Diet 1 Pg 9 - Dec. 1, 1987
Joint ARB's - Council
MILLER
~alue of property in your area, And, wherever possible you should try to
apply sort of a reasonable man's standard., a reasonable person's standard,
how would a reasonable person viewing this determine it's effect to be on
the value of property in the community, And wherever possible provide
testimony as to how it might affect the appearance and value.. they're
sort of inter-related and I realize it's somewhat subjective, but it's
important to try to emphasize that in your decision making process, parti-
cularly if and when we get involved in a court action on this. Let me
I
just go over,by way of conclusion,a few does and.don'ts" some of which
I've already covered already, I realize some of this sounds a little
idealistic.. but to the extend possible it's important to try to avoid
a confrontational approach. The ideal thing is, is llhat a lot of this
-
could be worked out in a dialogue between the ARB's and the people who
are seeking proposals before them.. And hopefully, we.won't have a lot of
appeals and matters coming forward in an adversarily sense, I realize
that isn't always possible but initially I think it should be viewed as
that type of a process. Agavn, I've mentioned, make sure your meetings
are open and that there's plenty of notice,and that all of you participate
in the meeting" We just can't really have decisions by phone call and
that type of thing,as convenient as that may seem,it eventually would
come back to haunt us, Another thing to keep in mind is,.. I mentioned
findings and how important they are.. and I would strongly advise against
avoiding the appearance, and don't take this the wrong way, but, of what
I call the majoritarian view of the zoning, It isn't necessarily zoning
by popularity and it's very important that your ARB's, once they make
their decision, recognize that's their decision and the Council and the
Planning Commission will review it, And it's important that, although ARB
members can come up and explain their decision and testify, ~e can't have
people changing their minds or explaining away their decision based on
MI LLER
MAYOR GILB
YOUNG
CHANDLER
11A YOR GI LB
Dict 1 Pg 10 - Dec. 1, 1987
Joint ARB's - Council
what they perceive to be the popular will of the association. Now, this
is maybe the human thing to do, but it's not really appropriate with regards
to process that we have here., So, as difficult as it may be, make your
decisions and stand by them,and the matter will come before the City any-
way,usually,if it's disputed and the City Council and the Planning Commission
will have to make the final adjudication. That basically concludes my
remarks.. I wanted to emphasize that it's important to read the rules that
apply to you., and that's your resolution,and if you have any questions
feel free to call anytime to pose those questions and I think the end
product of all of this will be a strong and a continued vitality to
I
architectural review in Arcadia. Thank you,
Thank you, Mike. Would anyone on the Council like to say anything, Mary,
No, thahk you. -
No, thanks,
Dennis? Is there anyone on the Architectural Review Boards that would
like to come up and ask any questions of Mike1 Do you have anything that
you have a question about? We were talking a little bit about these open
meetings and I'm not sure because I'm not positive how you all.. howevery-
body operates, Do you have regular meetings that are scheduled every two
weeks? Or just exactly how it operates other than the fact that I know
many times the developers and the builders rush in and have to have some-
thing finished up by tonight and everybody runs around and gets on the
phone and tries to get everybody together.. and I know it's extremely
difficult to get all of the Architectural Review Boards, or at least a
majority together for a meeting because so many people travel or are out
of town and so on and soforth. It seems to me that it would be an easier
operation if each association had five members on their Architectural
Review Board and at least three have
to be in attendance when these ,
a majority of the board... now wheth
decisions are made. Because that is
GILB
I
HARBI CHT
Diet 1 Pg 11 - Dec. 1, 1987
Joint ARB's - Council
that's impossible or not.. that it has to get down to the fact that those
who will be available in the neighborhood to be on an Architectural Review
Board..many times, I know, we're searching in our local areas for people
to serve on these things and we put people on the board that are never
in town,and they're all well intentioned, but can't come to a meeting...
So those type of people really are not fair to the people in the community
and in that particular Homeowner's Association who are seeking some help
in building or whatever the question might be. And, I think that that's
one thing we have to do is, maybe the officers of all these associations
have to get an inventory of all the people that are in the area and, so
that when this comes up they will know ahead of time who will be going on
these boards and who will be serving,and will they be availabte rather
than just rushing in at the last minute and picking up four or five people
and three of them may never be able to come to a meeting,., and that really
is very important. Also, what Mike was talking about is the Brown Act...
which we're all subject to, is open meetings and that's another thing that's
very important to the Architectural Review Boards, that all of the meetings
are open meeting and they're available to anyone that wants to attend
because you can't have someone come in and then have them state their case
and you say, "Well. 1'11 call you up 1 ater and tell you what we decide".
That really is not legal" I mean you have to tell the person there,or he
can wait for a decision or come back later. But the meetings have to be
open and they cannot - I won't say be in secret, but they can't be on the
telephone so these people will always know where they stand, Do you have
anything else you'd like to add, Bob?
Just a couple of things, I think that it requires a majority of the
to
membership of the board/render a decision, There are five members on the
board,. you have to have three votes to reach a decision. But, on this open
HARBICHT
MILLER
HARBICHT
GILB
ALLAIRE
Diet 1 Pg 12 - Dec. 1,1987
Joint ARB's - Council
meeting thing.. I was going to ask Mike - is it correct that not only is
the meeting open where the person presents his petition, but all discussions
among the Architectural Review Board members should be done with that person
having opportunity to be present?
Basically, that would be correct, There's no authority for a closed
session discussion of that and, therefore, it should be in the open and
deliberated with that person there, muqh like your decisions are,and any
Planning Commission matter that comes before you. That is correct.
I just wanted to make that point. I don't know if that's being done, butl
it's not a matter of where somebody comes and presents their petition and
then you say, "Ok, we'll discuss this and get qack to you". You have to
discuss it with them present., and you have to come to your ~cision with
them present if they want to be present, They have to have the opportunity
to be pres ent,
Is there anyone on any of the boards that would like to ask any questions?
Would you please come up and give us your name and address and what group
you're with, please.
I'm Jim Allaire, I'm Chairman of the Architectural Review Board of the
Highlands Homeowners Association, In the matter of the meetings in the
Resolution No. 5289 - there are two forms of application for a project
that a homeowner can prepare. One is a short form, and on the short
form the applicant has signatures of all of the owners that have property
abutting his property, In our area we also added - although it's not a
requirement on the City form - the properties across the street that
front on his property because we felt that was important. Now, as we read
the resolution, if all of" the homeowners approve,it implies, and I'd like
to get Mr. Miller's opinion, that no meeting is even required, That the
Ch"no" 'f 'h, ",hf',,"'" ".f.. B"" " , "'f"" '" 'pp"" 'h, ~
I
,
ALLAIRE
MILLER
ALLAIRE
MILLER
ALLAIRE
GILB
DANIELL
MILLER
DANIELL
MILLER
Dict 1 Pg 13 - Dec. 1,1987
Joint ARB's - Council
application. Now we don't follow that exactly. We have more than,.
unless it's something just absolutely simple - not exposed to anything,
we have a-majority of the Architectural Review Board review the drawings;
see the application with the neighbors signatures; and with no dispute if
we see nothing wrong, we approve it. Now, is our interpretation proper?
Bill Woolard, may want to address this in part" but the short review
process does not anticipate a notice of a scheduled meeting .,
That's correct,
And when that- applies all the other things about notice and all that really
don't come into play necessarily because you're agreeing with the applicant..
they'll be no dispute, It's only when you get into the regular review
process where you have to be concerned about the procedures.
..-
Yes, When we do have the short form though - it's an open meeting, anyone
could come, but it isn't noticed. and if there was a dispute or we were
going to djsapprove it then we would advise the owner. But. sofar we have
never had that situation. When we do have the long form the regular review
process where there has been an objection by a neighbor then, of course,
we have the noticed meeting and we usually have it at the property so that
people can look at the situation.
Any other questions.. anyone else?
Ed Daniel'. 777 Anoakia Lane, Rancho Santa Anita Property Dwners Association.
He answered a couple of my questions,. one of them was for Mr. Miller though.
It says. "I think you're covered under the Brown Act". Are we covered or
not?
Under a recent Brown Act - I would say you're covered because"
Would your-insurance' company say wefre covered?
Well, the insurance company doesn't get involved in the Brown Act" but
you're covered.
GILB
MILLER
ALLAIRE
MILLER
ALLAIRE
GILB
ALLAIRE
GILB
MILLER
GILB
Diet 1 Pg 14 - Dec.l, 1987
Jaint ARB's - Cauncil
Well, he wasn't thinking abaut the Brown Act,. he's thinking abaut
litigatian,. That's yaur paint, isn't it, Ed?
As far as being cavered by immunities, I believe yau are - it's my legal
canclusian and I've gatten that apinian also. fram ather attarneys, that
yau wauld be qualified far the Same immunities to. liability as the City
is. Hawever, caurts are very aften capable in an extreme case af setting
aside thase immunities, Sa there's no. such thing as a flat aut guarantee..
but, yes, yau are basically cavered by thase immunities fram liability. I
The City wauld defend us?
Well, I dan't knaw.... we'll see when a suit carnes what will happen.
We have a pal icy earning up far a thausand dallar premium.. and .that's
ridiculaus.
...
Yau mean yaur praperty awners assaciatian?
Yes.
Pay it, Then yau've gat two. attarneys.
Let me just say that irrespective af this whale design review pracess,
hameawners assaciatians are naw treated by the caurts as quasi-public
entities and are tald to. act in a way with meetings and apen meetings
and all af that, Sa yau have the prablem irrespective af this pracess.
I think what we do. need, Ed, is as these review baards change that we
have to. be infarmed at the City who. the members are af the praperty .awners
assaciatian baard af directars and the architectural review baards, Sa
then I knaw they've changed.. whenever they change we have to. knaw who.
they are - Bill has to. be informed ar at least,.. sa that that way we can
send infarmatian aut fram the City and send it to. samebady and they dan't
get it and say, "Oh, h--- I haven't been an that baard far two. years", and
throw it in the waste basket. Sa we want to. keep this infarmatian gaing
back and farth to. all af the..... sa we shau1d be i nfarmed at all times
,
GILB
LOJESKI
GILB
LOJES KI
I
GILB
LOJESKI
GILB
MILLER
HARBICHT
MILLER
LOJ ES KI
GILB
MILLER
Dict 1 Pg 15 - Dec. 1, 1987
Joint ARB's - Council
who members of all these boards are and their addresses and phone numbers.
I have a question,
Do you want to ask Ed a question?
No, I've got just a general question.. and that is, we keep talking in
terms of numbers - you know the majority of the board" well, some Q~ the
boards may have six members; some of them may have more than that; some
of them may only have five. I think the critical concern is that there
is at least five members to the architectural r.eview board of the board.
And the architectural review board may not be the same as the board..
am I making sense?
Well, yes, That's the point that I was bringing up before. I think they
should all have five.
....
At least five.
At least five and the majority should be at every meeting. Now, let me
ask you this question,. if you have five people and three show up at the
board meeting, which is a majority, do two people make the decision or
do they have to be three?
Unless there's some special rule - the general rule is a majority of the
quorum can make the decision, therefore, the answer would be two, Unless
there's a special rule that says it must be the majority of the entire
members hi p.
Well, a sample resolution that I have says, "Any decision by the Board
shall be made by a majority of the entire membership".
Right.. that would be the special rule that I had forgotten was in there..
I I m 91 ad you poi nted that out,
When it says board. Are we talking about the homeowners board or the
architectural review board?
We're talking about the architectural review board., is that correct?
Yes.
LOJESKI
HARBICHT
LOJESKI
GILB
LOJES KI
GILB
HARBICHT
GILB
LOJES KI
GILB
LOJESKI
GILB
LOJESKI
GILB
HARBICHT
Dict 1 Pg. 16 - Dec.1 1987
Joint ARB's - Council
I think that's a critical distinction to make because the two could be
totally separate entities,
I think that what you're suggesting, Dennis, which would require a modificatic
of the resolution, would be to specify that there be five members.
I think that would be healthy, I really do.
And a vote of three"
A vote of three one way or the other would be
of the
Architectural Review Boards,
I
Otherwise if one person shows up, under the old rule, he could make the
decision., .
Under the current rule it takes a majority of the board, not the members
there.
..~
Ok. So it really should be... I think we ought to designate that there
ought to be five members on every Architectural,., you say, at least
five.
Five... .
They have a heck of a time finding five.
I have no problems with....... yeah.. I don't want to see four...
Well there has to be a majority of those people making the decision.
I don't want to see four. I don't want to see six,. I want an uneven
number.. five is a good number,
Ok.. yes ~
Back on this litigation issue.. I think that it's very unlikely that
somebody would sue an Architectural Review Board without also suing the
City. since you're acting as agents of the City. And, in that case the
City is probablY,.we're obviously going to defend the City. Welre probably
going to defend you unless you acted in such an' irresponsible, capricious
"'"'" th,t... I "",. .,' co ",t.. ., d,,' t h... to do it. . "d.. '"'. itl
I
HARBICHT
LOJ ES KI
MILLER
GI LB
JAHNKE
GILB
JAHNKE
GILB
Dict 1 Pg. 17 - Dec. 1,198
Joint ARB's - Council
very likely that we'd all be in the same boat on something like that.
All be in the same soup pot"
That's correct. A suit couldn't even be filed until a "quote" final
decision closed. vote was made. That "final decision", is by definition,
made by the City Council, So the City would be named in any suit, and
the homeowners may not even be named in it. But if you are,clearly the
City would have the primary obligation to defend that particular lawsuit.
Any other.. anybody else have another question? Fred?
Fred Jahnke, 11 Hacienda, San Anita. Oaks ARB Chairman, I wanted to speak
of the
to one/same issues that came up earlier. I think that the neighbors
across the street are more concerned with more projects than the neighbors
behind, And I would suggest that Bill Woolard might look in...with his
group, to changing the form which we've been given for signatures ., on
the short form review. I also think that there are far too many, at least
my experience is, your neighbor shows up and says, "Hey, I want to build
a little something.. it's not going to bother you, Would you sign here?"
And the guy signs it, Especially when he looks and ther~ no other way to
approach this,. there's no way for him to say, 'I am not in favor'. And, I
" it's not exactly a vote, but that's what it comes down to. And, I think
that on this short form review, it should have some place to say, "I am in
favor", or "I am not in favor". And, I don't see why it doesn't say that.
Let me ask you this, Should it say somewhere on that .. I'll just ask this
quick... that says, "I would like to see the plans first". Or something
1 i ke that?
It says on here, "We've read the application, We've seen the proposed plans".
It says that you have,
Well, many times, just like you're saying, they don't look at plans,
And, then they'll come over later and say, "Well, I didn't know that was
Dict 1 Pg 18 - Dec. 1,1987
Joint ARB's - Council
GILB
JAHNKE
GILB
going to happen~, And, maybe they didn't know that was going to happen.
Absolutely,
JAHNKE
GILB
JAHNKE
And, we have a lot of neighbors that don't want to tell the guy next door
he don't want him to do it,. he wants you to tell him,
You better believe it.
He says yes, and he wants you to go tell them, no.
I had a neighbor call me recently, I won't tell you the name of the case...
he calls me and he says, "Hey, this is a-monstrosity next door. What are
the short form and they went off. He signed it, I proved
I checked itl
So, they pu 11
it" I called
they doing? They have no building permit, I don't think".
out.. they didn't. He was right, it was a bad situation.
and said, 'Hey, wait a minute. What's going on here?' He said, "Well,
...-
everybody else signed it. I thought I had to." We need some rechanging
on this form to make it a wittle more definitive for people.
GILB
Even if it says on there, "I'd like to see more of this proposal before I
agree". Dr something like that. Because one neighbor, you know, they
catch your wtfe or your husband,. whatever it happens to be, and they've
signed, yes, But they don't really want to get into an argument with
this neighbor. They want you to do it. But they signed, yes, and they
want you to go tell them, no, And maybe somewhere on there they would
like to see more detail or whatever the question might be and say, "I'd
like to see more this proposal defined", or whatever it is.
JAHNKE
Ok. We try and handle as many of these as we can on short form review
because most of there are pretty clean when they come to us. But you
can't always tell because we don't always see the plans when the applicant
draws his application. And we may get five neighbors, or four neighbors..
or whatever the case may be, who will sign this and say they agree with it..
and when it reaches me it's clear that they are violaHng s~tbacks; that
people do not understand what they are,. what theY'r~ sa~ing they agree wi
Diet 1 Pg 19 - Dec. 1, 1987
Joint ARB's - Council
JAHNKE
And at that point in time generally I will talk to one or two of my other
members,. but sometimes because we're being pushed heavily we'll just
deny it and send it on through, I don't know that then., I wanted to make
sure, from the legal standpoint, that we have to necessarily agree with
'the majority of the neighbors that's,.. otherwise there'd be no reason to
have the ARB. You could just have a vote of five neighbors on this form.
And, that's not what I understand it to be. So, that I do not understand
that if they get ten neighbors who say, "Yes, they want it". the ARB must,
indeed, agree with that. I mean, we take that into heavy consideration.
But oftentimes a neighbor will sign this, as I say, without realizing, and
oftentimes he will not realize that they, basically, were saying, "Hey, we're
not givi~g on setbacks in this area". "We're trying to keep it neat and
-
clean". He doesn't understand the basic premise from which we operate,
So, many times", no, not many times, but sometimes we have turned down
short form applications where neighbors have signed, or at least a majority
have signed and approved it. And I want to be sure we're not in any legal
hassle on that. I don't want to go through a short and then go through
the process of notifying and having, a public meeting. We'll, generally,
call the applicant, however, and explain to him why and what's happened on
MILLER
this. Do you see any problem with that?
Not right off hand. What I'll do is review the resolution and discuss it
with the Planning Director and get back to you and advise the Council on
that, too. But I don't think there's a problem. But, one of the purposes,
I think, of this process, is a search for possible amendments to the process.
So, I think it's good if you have any suggestions, because when we wrote it
a couple of years ago and when it was adopted the Council was very clear
that we'll see how it works and we may have to make some changes and then
prove it, perhaps. So, any suggestions you have along these lines...
JAHNKE
MILLER
JAHNKE
MILLER
JAHNKE
GILB
CHANDLER
JAHNKE
CHANDLER
JAHNKE
CHANDLER
ALLAIRE
JAHNKE
CHANDLER
Dict 1 Pg. 20 - Dec, 1, 198i
Joint ARB's - Council
Ok.. we have five members on the ARB.. so, I guess we're not in hot water
with you all, But, and we normally get four.. at least four together.
However', we have one member who was formally on the ARB" who is no longer.
And, we carry him as an alternate because he is available from time to time.
You never did that in the Planning Commission and I know you don't do it
on the City Council, Is there any problem with that, Mike, having an
alternate who is, you know, understanding" not just somebody you brought
in at the last minute. But someone who has been involved in this proces
As long as they're involved., I don't see any problem. We may want to
amend the resolution to legitimatize in writing, but, I don't see any
problem in that practice as long".
If he's a, designated alternate,. it's by name, and he's alwa!! been ..,
Like an alternate jury in a jury trial... as long as they're aware they
can legally....
Don't talk to me about trials, Mike.
Thanks, Fred.
I have a question, When you have a case that's disputed where do you
generally" or where do you meet?
Well, generally, in my living room.
Ok.
Except for a coupl e of times when I was teari ng it apart., we had the"
second meeting down here,
Ok. The other fellow said they usually meet at the site, I would suppose
that would be at the site where the change is going to occur? Is that
correct?
Yes,
We've done that occasionally, right.
It just seems to me if... experienced a couple of these disputed cases,
CHAMDLER
JAHNKE
CHAMDLER
JAHMKE
CHANDLER
GILB
YOUMG
GILB
MILLER
PHILLIPI
D i ct 1 Pg 21 - Dec. 1, 1987
Joint ARB's - Council
that when you're in Fred's living room you're kind of "ps."COlogically at a
disadvantage walking in the door.
You haven't been to my living room., why do you say that?
Well, I feel that way not even getting in there.. just watching you, Is
there a problem if something like this.. if it was clearly a disputed case,
was held in, more or less, a public place like that...
That's why we try and hold anything that we have real problems with..,
we don't .. we have.. where it's really a dispute I don't want to have it,
frankly, in the applicant's house because now you've really brought those
opposing neighbors in where they've got to sit in his living.room and tell
him they don't like it, And that's difficult. So, we've had at least five
down here and I ~an, generally, you know, you can generally t~l when you've
got a problem and we do schedule it through here and the City has been very
kind to assist us in getting the room. So, we've had no problems that way.
I'd be interested
note from Steve Phillipi., how about the hearings
that you've had recently? Where did they occur?
Thanks, Fred,
While Steve's coming,. may I ask Mr, Miller a question? Is there anything
wrong with an Architectural Review Board saying "NO" when all of the
neighbors agree?
No.
No, not at all. It's an adjudicative process like a court and it's not
up to the majority rule, So, there's nothing wrong at all.. as long as
they feel that they're making the proper findings,
Steve Phillipi, 804 Balboa Drive, President of the Santa Anita Village Home-
owner's Association. Mr. Chandler, in response to your question specifically,
public hearings are held o~ ARB applications at the home of the ARB Chairman.
PHILLIPI
PHI LLI PI
Dict 1 Pg. 22 - Dec. 1,1987
Joint ARB's - Council
Which presently is Gary Kovacic. Therefore, the recent hearings to which
you made reference have been held in Gary's family room, There have been...
and one time in his backyard during the summer., there have been as many
as 40 to 50 people in attendance at these hearings. And, actually I..
now that I'm up here, I'd like to address a couple of specific points and
really that's one of them. Let me just start out by saying, I thank the
. Council for giving us the opportunity to come tonight to hear Mike and
members of the Council,. to also have an opportunity to have some input.
Let me assure the Council that due process is alive and well in the Villa
Just last Tuesday night I told the Planning Commission that I consider t
Village Association to be an example of how this is supposed
(End of Tape 1 Side 1)
(Beginning of Side 2)
"'.
consists of five people, They were properly appointed pursuant to the by-
laws of my association at the first Board of Directors meeting held during
my presidency, These meetings were held pursuant to the by-laws on a quarterl.
basis, What you find are fair hearings; an opportunity for everyone to be
heard; you find specific and detailed findings based upon the resolution.
I don't know whether any of you have seen any of the findings prepared by
the Village recently, but they're very very detailed; they're .very very
specific; they go to the resolution itself and we're very very proud of
them. I have just a couple of miscellaneoous points. First of all, I want
to touch upon the issue of whether or not we're zoning by popularity..
which is a term that Mr. Miller used, I think, clearly, we can't have, sort
of a lynch mob mentality, We can't have,. if we have a bunch of people in
the audience saying, "We don't like this spec." That isn't the way the
ARB should act, On the other hand it seems to me quite, clear that when t
City Council, in it's wisdom, created homeowner's associations sometime
PHI LLIPI
GILB
PHI LLI PI
Diet 2 Pg 23 - Dec. 1,1987
Joint ARB's - Council
ago, one of it's reasons for doing that was to see that self control or
local determination existed, Therefore, I think it is safe to say, and
I'Me been before the Council on other issues, specifically, roofing issues,
where they've sai d, "What do your peopl e want? Do your peopl e want compos i-
tion roofing? Have you asked them recently?" I think it is important to
find out what the people do want, and on that subject, I'd like to hand
out., I've given to the City Clerk this evening, to hand out to the Members
of Council, a survey that the Village has conducted with regard to new
what
construction, You can read it; you can seelthe results of it were. But,
I assure you that the ARB in my area is not a loose cannon, it is operating
in accordance with the desires of the overwhelming majority of the people.
But, it's also using a good basis in fact and good logic and good reasoning
..-
with respect to the resolution. So, I'll give those to the City Clerk,.,
So, just to finish that thought, I don't think we can have.. we can't have
whoever is screaming the loudest at the hearing make the decision. But, I
do think that we want to follow the wishes of the people of our area, A
second point - regular meetings - somebody brought up the point of regular
meetings, I think it would be a good idea to amend the resolution to
change the notice provisions. I would like to see the meetings of the ARB
conducted every two weeks,
Steve, that's one question we're going to ask tonight that we don't know..
we're going to ask each one.. how often do you meet? And, this is a point
you're bringing up now.
The answer to your question, Mr. Mayor, is that we meet whenever there's a
need, and as you know" if we have to have a public hearing - the public
hearing has to be conducted on 10 days notice. And, typically, if the
ARB Chairman receives plans within 11 to 15 days,. the hearings are held.
They're very very prompt. As you know also, on the regular.review process
there must be a decision within 30 days. But, what I'd like to see - I'd
PHILLIPI
CHAND LER
PHI LLI PI
Dict 2 Pg 24 - Dec. 1, 1987
Joint ARB's - Council
like to see the meetings held on a regular basis.. put the notice of the
meetings in the Tribune, Let people know that this is a part of the City
government; that this is something which functions regularly, I think we
need to amend the notice provisions in order to accomplish that due to
some "glitches. which could occur, But, I'd like to see the meeting in
my area held at the Hugo Reid Auditorium" I'd like to see that happen
once every two weeks, If there's no business to conduct then we adjourn
the meeting. This way people know regularly what's going on.
Steve, how about we get back to that disputed case? Would you just as
soon see that held at the Hugo Reid cafeteria? Dr do you want it.,.
Well, yes, for a couple of reasons, Let me tell you that the ARB Chairman
and his wife.. after awhile having 50 people tromp through your house gets
..~
a little bit old, I think. I don't think" at lease in my perception, I
don't think that anybody felt that they were at a disadvantage because of
the location of the 'meeting. The meeting was very very fairly conducted.
It lasted for a period of a couple hours. Several meetings lasted for
two hours each, I don't think there was any disadvantage because of the
forum. But, I think, clearly, it's a good idea to hold this sort of a
meeting ina public place,and I'd like to see it done on a regular basis,
Another point I'd like to raise is that, and this sort of has two sides
to it, I guess.., we, unfortunately, don't have the advantage that the
Planning Commission and the Council has,. we don't have an excellent staff
to prepare findings and research and even type findings. We don't have
a budget, so to speak, with regard to photosopying and postage. And,
what you find, is that the few fine dedicated people involved in this
though their businesses, usually, dedicate a lot of secretarial time;
dedicate a lot of postage; dedicated a lot of... donate a lot of postage..
I guess is the word, and photocopying expense, I think it's important
that we be as thorough as were being but, I think, and I just raise it
PHILLIPI
GILB
Dict 2 Pg 25 - Dec. 1, 1987
Joint ARB's - Council
as a concern. I think we have to understand that there's a cost attached
to being that thorough, Just one more point, and that is, I'd like to
bring up that' the resolution has a "glitch" in it which I've discussed
with Mr. Woolard and Mr. Miller, almost from the time it was first adopted,
And that has to do with the distinction between the short review'and the
regular review. If you read the resolution quite literally, anything
involving external building appearance or external building materials
requires a public hearing. That clearly, I think, was not the intent,.
at least as I understood it as I was going through the meetings when we
were formulating this proposal, The idea was that in cases in which there
was no controversy, for the applicant's wellbeing it ought to .. the
approval ought to come as quickly as possible, An example ~uld be - a
roofing material which has been standardly accepted in an area. Even
though we do those on short review presently, as a matter of fact they're
pre-approved.. the City has a list of pre-approved materials. I think if
you read the resolution they actually required a public hearing and I
know that wasn't what was required. Rather, if you read it quite literally
it would appear that a short review is appropriate only in cases of wild
yard
animals or side/setbacks or front yard setbacks.. issues which quite frankly,
we just don't see that often. So, I think that we need to amend the reso-
lution in that way, Basically, I'd just like to say 1. hope the Council
will continue to support Architectural Review
I think it works very
well, I think it makes our areaS what they are. I'm very proud of my
association and the people on it's ARB. And, I'd be happy to answer any
questions,
Thank you, Any questions? Thanks, Steve, very much. So, your association
really meets whenever the need is? Ed Danien's.does.. or Chris, when does
that association.. ARB, meet? Whenever you need to?
DANIELL
GILB
JAHNKE
GILB
WYMAN
GILB
ALLAIRE
GILB
ALLAI RE
GILB
HENKEL
GILB
Dict 2 Pg 26 - Dec.l, 1987
Joint ARB's - Council
When something comes up" it may be three times a month,. it may be zero;
it may be three times,. we don't know,
Fred Jahnke?
As required - I sure wouldn't want to see that changed. because sometimes
we go a month without a meeting,
And, that's good? Bill Wyman, when is your group meeting?
Whenever it's required probably., when it's required., as long as
but I certainly don't want to have a meeting every two weeks.
I don't think that's necessary.
Jim Allaire, when do you have yours?
We have them as required. I would be against having them on a regular
basis.
....
You'd lose all your members,.
.,...... it really would not be necessary, Sometimes we have to meet,
maybe, several times a week,. sometimes it's.,
A month between meetings. Anyone else who would like to say something?
My name is Bob Henkel, I live at 1065 Singingwood Drive. I'm a member of
the Rancho Review Board. I'd just like to say, a recent person that has
moved in and did not know of all the regulations and soforth,and I don't
think there are many people that do, I think that has to be corrected.
We're not giving the notification to the people that are moving in to the
area and, at least, in our area, And, I don't know how to resolve that
other than putting down a restriction on the realtor saying that they..
you have to have due process" or you have to put it in the real estate
agreement and state that there is a review board and you must go through
that review board. I think that's an excellent way of making sure that
every homeowner knows when they move into an area that there is a review
board to go through,
Well we have talked about that and.., in quite a number of cases over the
GILB
WOOLARD
GI LB
HENK~L
MILLER
HENKEl
GILB
HENKEl
Dict 2 Pg 27 - Dec. 1, 1987
Joint ARB's - Council
years and many times we find that the real estate people say, "We are not
your police Dept." And, if.. many times they do not.. I find that.. I've
heard is a better statement, I've heard.. it's been said, that if they
find out there's too many restrictions the people don't want to buy the
house
or cutting down trees and soforth, Bill Woolard would you have...
We've been working, the last six-eight months here, to implement a procedure
whereby all new residents based on water turnons or transfers, are sent a
cover letter and a copy of the resolution that pertains to their area.,
and that should be reaching most of the people.
That's good,
Well, with the new disclosure laws that are required by realtors,. I would
imagine that would be covered under a disclosure law because there are
restrictions, To me.. that's a disclosure law, I would havt-to go to
Mr. Miller and say,..
I feel it is covered by disclosure laws. We had a little problem with one
realtor who wasn't telling people about the requirements on trees, and he
finally decided he should tell them about trees under the disclosure
requi rements.
Well, the disclosure could.. at the same time, give them the application
form and say, "This is what you have to go through. This is the process".
You know, I think it could be very clear. The second thing that our
association is having problems with is, what happens when somebody goes
ahead with a project ,. we have one going on right now, and has not notified
us or the City and has done a lot of work and we still have not been able. to,.
first of all, s~op them,. and second off, they haven't given us any plans...
You mean they don't have a building permit?
What are the procedures? No, it's exterior work on their home. It's yard
work.. it's landscaping.
GILB
WOO LARD
HENKEL
WOOLARD
MILLER
GILB
HENKEL
GILB
DANI EL~
GILB
DANI ELL
, Diet 2 Pg 28 - Dec. 1, 1987
Joint ARB's - Council
It's landscaping? Bill, what happens on that? You don't need a building
perm it,
You don't need a building permit. On the other hand I'm not sure that
that's something that's covered under the ARB's, really, scope of authority,
if it's not involving a structure and not involving walls more than two
feet high.
Driveways.. and things like that?
Right. I'm not sure that those are really covered under the existing
resolution.
To answer your question.. just,'assuming you don't know if it's covered 0
not. When in doubt you would call the City and report it to the Planning
Department. They will review it and send an inspector out a~ if necessary
,
we'll do what we have to do to enforce the requirements.
In your case, ask Ed Daniell's, he knows everything about....
I realize that .. and we have one going on,. we're not gett~ng it solved.
Well, you don't,. and getting back to this real estate people.. you know
Ed called me up one day and said the guy next door just layed down a big
oak tree and once it's down it isn't going back up again, you know, so
there's a problem you have" and it was a huge oak that came down on
Foothill on a construction job. But there wasn't anything we could do
about it after it was already down.. so I can understand what you're
talking about,. Thank you very much. Anyone else? Are you coming back
up here, Ed? Well, it's 7 o'clock..
What
do you have? I called the City,. they said, "Well, gee, we
can't get an inspector out there till 10 0' clock", They were choppi ng
the tree down.
You called me,. you didn't call the City.
No, no, no... before I called the City. Do you call th'e Police? They sa
DANIELL
?
GILB
DANI ELL.
GI LB
DANIELL
GILB
MILLER
GI LB
MILLER
Diet 2 Pg 29 - Dec. 1,1987
Joint ARB's - Council
"Well gee, we don't know anything about it". Can't the City tell the
Police that that's a "no, no"?
Ed, you're supposed to chain yourself to the tree.
No, but Ed, this is a good point,
I've had a couple of people come to
even
haven't/discussed with anybody else -
me in the last couple of days,. I
that said,
. we need more building inspectors on the payroll cause there's so much
building going on in town that they're waiting for building inspectors.
I don't know if that's a true statement. I haven't even discussed it
with George - but yesterday somebody called me up and said, "We're waiting -
we're all the time waiting for a building inspector around here".
Well,we called the Police on one of them and they don't know a d--- thing
about it. Shouldn't they?
...
The Police Dept, - I don't know, I don't think so.
But, shouldn't they enforce the laws of the City?
It would seem. Well, if you're through talking to him.. do you hear what....
No, I didn't hear?
He said if they lay a tree down and he calls the Police Dept.,. they weren't
supposed to cut the tree down - he get to them before they cut it down, isn't
the Police Dept. supposed to come up.,.
You've picked on the hardest problem we have and that's involving the
trees because they can get out there with saws and before you know it
they're gone. We try to stay on top of it,. if we get notice of it we
have on occasion., either Bill Woolard and I, advised the Police to go
out there and stop it, and then we notify them of the requirements. In
one case Councilmember Lojeski was aware of something like that and he
reported .it and we were able to stop it. So, it's a very hard problem.
You have to report it as fast as you can to the Planning Director or the
City Attorney, and then we can advise the Police of what's required,
DANIELL
MILLER
DANIELL
GILB
WYMAN
MILLER
WYMAN
MILLER
WYMAN
MILLER
WYMAN
GILB
D i ct 2 Pg 30 - Dec. 1, 1987
Joint ARB's - Council
Well, why can't you call the Police? If they cut down a tree on Sunday
how can I get a Councilman? How can I get the Planning Commission?
Well, there's other procedures which we'd be happy to look into,
Yes, but the tree's down, You called " a Sunday, we should be able to
have the Police go out and say, "Hey, stop", Why can't we?
Ed, I have to tell you something and, I mean, I understand., that's a
logical question with a, you know, what there is...,. I mean, you're a
logical person why don't you answer it? We'll work on it.. Ed, we'll
work on it, ok? We're working on that project ,. write that down.
Bill Wyman, 507 Monte Vista, I won't be long, but I want to say that I'
been on an Architectural Review Board for 20 years" 25 years, actually,
Jim Rostron's been on for 20 years; Bob Erickson,and Ted Shonfeld is
...-
about 15 years; Vern Leeper for about 5 years. One question.. when there's
a member that is absent that has reviewed his drawings, could his vote count
when we review his drawings?
He didn't participate in the hearing?
Not in the hearing" but he reviewed the drawings and he.came up with an
answer that we "Approved". it.
There are some possibilities there. I'd be happy to talk to you over the
phone and go over that with you and explain to you the different rules.
The problem would be., he may have reviewed the drawings but he didn't hear
the evidence. Now, if you keep minutes or some kind of record of the
proceeding that occurs and he sees the plans and reviews that.. then it's
possible he could be allowed to participate, but,......
In other words, then he could have a vote after he saw the minutes and
had the review of it?
Yes, that's possible.
Then he could possibly have it, yes, not before, Alright fine, thank you
Well, if any of you have any problems you can always get hold of Mike on
Diet. 2 Pg 31 - Dec. 1, 198i
Joint ARB's - Council
GILB
the telephone, or Bill or somebody here that..,. And, I want to thank
you all for coming here tonight and tell you how much the Council and
staff appreciate the ARB's and the Planning Commission and all the work
that's..,.,a lot of thankless jobs out there, but everybody's doing a
good job, I think, and we do appreciate all of your work and efforts,.
and with that we'll adjourn this meeting because we have a Pre-Council
meeting at 7 o'clock. Thank you very much for coming, This meeting
is adjourned.
....